Honest Watermen

[bebopper]

Are we starting to get the idea that only 1% of the watermen are dishonest is a myth? I would think that the Maryland Watermen's Assn. would want to expell these violaters of our Natural Resources Laws for the following reasons: they are stealing from everyone including other watermen, they are destroying the resources, they make the Watermen's Assn. look bad in the public's eyes, they help distort any attempt for DNR to come up with decent catch statistics, and the list goes on. Hopefully Sims and others will wise up and discontinue covering for these guys. We can only imagine how many illegally caught species have been removed from our waters that went undectected.

[calpn trayt]

i'll second that...!

[Offshore12]

Are you serious? Some of these violators hold leadership positions at the Maryland Watermans' Association.

[kidz]

I think it is more like, what happens in the mwa, stays with the mwa.They stick up for one another, since eveybody else is out to get them. Doing right from wrong is not agreeable to them. The honest waterman shouldn't have to police the bad ones, it is not in their best interest. Just my 2 cents. The public is only interested in eating seafood and could care less where it comes from or how it is caught.

[joe117]

Shut them all down for five years.

[poorbuck]

Are you starting to get the idea that your on a anit-comm web site?:eek2:

[27 sailfish]

Not anti commercial - anti poacher.

[flattyfrank]

Are you serious? Some of these violators hold leadership positions at the Maryland Watermans' Association.


Oh? And which ones are they? No one to my knowledge.

[heimdall]

There were 7759 commercial licenses issued by the DNR in 2008.

Has anybody totaled up the number of people this board has been talking about in the last 3 or 4 weeks? How many 20 or 25.

At 25 thats 3 tenths of 1 percent.

Seems some are quick to push people to be unemployed over a few rotten apples. And that's what it is a few.

Though the MWA tries to represent all those licenses, I'd venture a guess that no more then 25 percent belong to the association. If that.

[Steve F]

This might get interesting :popcorn:

[Chumbucket]

I can think of just a select few honest, honorable, men I have known that have taught me lessons that I have carried throughout my life...They shape who you are. I can count them on less then one hand. They were exceptional in my estimation, and I'd do well to live up to any of their examples....One of them was a life long "honest" waterman.

...and his lease ground was regularly plundered by the dishonest kind...And given my predisposition at the time the dishonest ones should count themselves lucky that my mother ensured I had a good Catholic upbringing, that's the difference between a shot off the bow and a shot somewhere else potentially more problematic...

I know how to stop poaching, and it's not legal...

[rhahn427]

Are you starting to get the idea that your on a anit-comm web site?:eek2:

No but I'm getting the idea you can't spell .......... :D

[paxfish]

T

At 25 thats 3 tenths of 1 percent.

.

That we know about. That got caught.

My guess is that the proportion of dishonest watermen is probably pretty close to the number of dishonest rec guys.

Probably 50% consider it a personal integrity issue and always follow the rules.
50% break a rule now and then if they think they can get away with it.
Half of those push the hours or hide a 17 3/4" fish
Half of those regularly poach
Half of those have poacher as a job title, have been caught multiple times and do more damage than all the others combined.

The problem comes in when you see just how much damage a few watermen can do to the resource. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of spawning stripers.

Real damage.

[Chumbucket]

There has to be tonger here....How long to clear off a closed bed? How many thousands of pounds of illegal fish was Danny Beck caught with? Anybody?

A dirty comm can do a lot of damage real quick...

[ed robinson]

May 26, 2006
The current and former presidents of the Baltimore County Watermen's Association and a
third commercial fisherman have pleaded guilty in federal court to charges of poaching
off Aberdeen Proving Ground.
Charles "Sonny" Norris, Daniel F. Beck and Harry Foote III were arrested March 1,
2005, by officers of the Army installation's Marine, Wildlife and Environmental Law
Enforcement Division, who pulled up about 85 nets filled with more than 22,000 pounds
of yellow perch, a fish protected under Maryland law.

[Chumbucket]

Well I'll be....Anybody ever caught 22,000 pounds of yellow perch here? Anybody? (Zam excluded of course)

[heimdall]

There has to be tonger here....How long to clear off a closed bed? How many thousands of pounds of illegal fish was Danny Beck caught with? Anybody?

A dirty comm can do a lot of damage real quick...



I guess everyone missed Mr Brincefield's comment about you, but me. You sir, are the pot calling the kettle black.

A felony is a felony whether stealing fish or bringing untaxed cigarettes into Maryland. If it is a lie, take it up with the person who said it.

[ed robinson]

In 2000, Beck pleaded guilty to federal charges of catching as much as $70,000 worth of
striped bass off of APG using state fishing licenses issued to his wife and daughter, then
falsifying his catch information at his state-licensed check station.
Garbis sentenced him then to one year and one day in federal prison, fined him $5,000
and ordered the forfeiture of his fishing license, boat and nets.

This waterman is still fishing, and never misses a fisheries meeting and a chance to testify on behalf of all watermen.

[dcriii5]

May 26, 2006
The current and former presidents of the Baltimore County Watermen's Association and a
third commercial fisherman have pleaded guilty in federal court to charges of poaching
off Aberdeen Proving Ground.
Charles "Sonny" Norris, Daniel F. Beck and Harry Foote III were arrested March 1,
2005, by officers of the Army installation's Marine, Wildlife and Environmental Law
Enforcement Division, who pulled up about 85 nets filled with more than 22,000 pounds
of yellow perch, a fish protected under Maryland law.

Hmmm....Sonny Norris...where have I seen that name?

Oh yeah! Here it is..

Maryland Watermens Association, Larry Simns, Fred Maddox,Tucker Brown, Joseph Sadler, Danny Beck, Russell Dize, Bill Gunther, Bob Evans, Kenny Keen, John Stallard, Joe Stine, Ben Parks, Jim Jacquette, Shane Horney, Robert T. Brown, Charles Marsh, Jef (http://www.marylandwatermen.com/board.htm)

[Chumbucket]

I guess everyone missed Mr Brincefield's comment about you, but me. You sir, are the pot calling the kettle black.

A felony is a felony whether stealing fish or bringing untaxed cigarettes into Maryland. If it is a lie, take it up with the person who said it.

Easy there bud, I have never brought back into Maryland any cigarettes that are illegal, two cartons, every trip, as allowed by law, unlike a former famous Bay captain I could name...

So go easy with those accusations...

Do I chose to vote with my gas peddle or throttle hand? Sure I do...Do I do it within the law? Yes...

No need for an apology...

["Dirty Girl"]

Why is there never any news about recs doing illegal activity. Its just as bad. poaching is poaching. no matter how you look at it.

[Black Irish]

Are you starting to get the idea that your on a anit-comm web site?:eek2:

We're getting tired, irritated and down right pissed off about the amount of repeat poaching offenders.

No need to worry if you are within the law. No need to worry if you have made a few honest mistakes. But nighttime excursions with the lights off and the silencers on the exhaust...different story.

[Chumbucket]

Why is there never any news about recs doing illegal activity. Its just as bad. poaching is poaching. no matter how you look at it.

Oh there is...Go to any underpass on a bridge in Southern Maryland any weekend or the causeway at PLO and you'll find busts on occasion....But there's something sexy about 22,000 pounds of perch versus some schmoe with undersized yellows or whatever, I'm sure you can see the math in that...

["Dirty Girl"]

Why don't we ever hear about recs poaching? Poaching is Poaching, no matter who does it.

[Chumbucket]

Why don't we ever hear about recs poaching? Poaching is Poaching, no matter who does it.

It's been on here...Why do you think?

[Black Irish]

Why is there never any news about recs doing illegal activity. Its just as bad. poaching is poaching. no matter how you look at it.

I keep asking... show me. Where? Maybe occasionally, here and there, you see a rec get caught. But there's 40-50,000 recs out there and only a few get caught once in a while? How come there's 6,000 comms out there and another one shows up in the blotter every few days? What does that tell you? I know I get checked, so the DNR doesn't just check the comms.

["Dirty Girl"]

It's been on here...Why do you think?



Everyone is acting like its the watermen's fault and recs are excluded from this category.

[Chumbucket]

I keep asking... show me. Where? Maybe occasionally, here and there, you see a rec get caught. But there's 40-50,000 recs out there and only a few get caught once in a while? How come there's 6,000 comms out there and another one shows up in the blotter every few days? What does that tell you? I know I get checked, so the DNR doesn't just check the comms.

With repeated violations all of which involve blatantly illegal activity? This isn't a case of, "I didn't know better."

We begged for enforcement of lease water rights when oysters were getting stolen from right under our nose, we got zero...

We got it handled...

[Chumbucket]

Everyone is acting like its the watermen's fault and recs are excluded from this category.

I haven't seen anybody include a rec exclusion for any suggested statutory changes....You?

["Dirty Girl"]

I haven't seen anybody include a rec exclusion for any suggested statutory changes....You?


Its seems to me the consequences are directed to commercials. Not trying to start a war, by all means. But so far, everyone has said commercials are the reason for making the DNR numbers false, well what about the recs and their impacts?

[Chumbucket]

Its seems to me the consequences are directed to commercials. Not trying to start a war, by all means. But so far, everyone has said commercials are the reason for making the DNR numbers false, well what about the recs and their impacts?

The consequences, Dirty Girl, are directed at the comms because the comms are a major problem...They don't play well in the sandbox, from under reporting to outright poaching, not to even talk about repeat offenders....And because of the gear that they use to, "fish", their potential for damage is exponentially greater? Right?

So if you have a problem, where would you start with limited resources? Maybe with those who have the ability to do the most damage to the fishery? Maybe those with a vested interest in exploiting the fishery?

Where would you start if you were in charge of NRP?

["Dirty Girl"]

I say poaching is poaching no matter who does it. Its like stealing, stealing a dollar is the same as stealing $1000. Its stealing no matter how you look at it.

First, I was in charge of NRP, I would increase the NRP staff with more boats, personel and equipment. The presence of authority has a big impact.

[Chumbucket]

I say poaching is poaching no matter who does it. Its like stealing, stealing a dollar is the same as stealing $1000. Its stealing no matter how you look at it.

First, I was in charge of NRP, I would increase the NRP staff with more boats, personel and equipment. The presence of authority has a big impact.

Yeah, well, meanwhile back in the real world with headlines comparing our present situation to THE GREAT DEPRESSION I can assure you that increased enforcement presence on the water is not gonna happen....What else ya got?

[dcriii5]

Its seems to me the consequences are directed to commercials. Not trying to start a war, by all means. But so far, everyone has said commercials are the reason for making the DNR numbers false, well what about the recs and their impacts?

So what has more impact, 20 weekend warriors with rusty Zebcos and the wrong bait under the Kent narrows bridge or the Sandy Point jetty who may get lucky and catch a handful of undersized rock or perch that are too stupid to know the regs, or the guy on federal land who is a professional with a 1/4 mile of pound net under the cover of darkness.

But, alas, some prefer to troll...

["Dirty Girl"]

I got on the site not too long ago, Im not a troll.

Being a weekend warrior, I have seen them. Way more then 20...and way more then old boats and wrong bait...On the contrary. Many know exactly what they are doing and catch alot of fish. I am not saying comm. should be let off for poaching, nor recs.

Guess on this site its agree or shut up.

[Chumbucket]

I got on the site not too long ago, Im not a troll.

Being a weekend warrior, I have seen them. Way more then 20...and way more then old boats and wrong bait...On the contrary. Many know exactly what they are doing and catch alot of fish. I am not saying comm. should be let off for poaching, nor recs.

Guess on this site its agree or shut up.

No, you're right...Game violations should be reported, period....So did ya? Report that is?

["Dirty Girl"]

Im not the law. Im not out on the water at night to see if someone is using a net, I can't just go over to some rec and say let me measure your fish, I try to keep to myself. If I do see someone doing illegal activty that I am SURE is wrong, like crab pots in an illegal zone or recs fishin outside a rockfish zone, you bet I'll call.

If your talking about a catch report, Im not comm.

[Chumbucket]

Im not the law. Im not out on the water at night to see if someone is using a net, I can't just go over to some rec and say let me measure your fish, I try to keep to myself. If I do see someone doing illegal activty that I am SURE is wrong, like crab pots in an illegal zone or recs fishin outside a rockfish zone, you bet I'll call.

If your talking about a catch report, Im not comm.

So in otherwords you don't know what you saw...

OK...

But if you did know what you saw you'd do something....Good on ya!

[Black Irish]

I got on the site not too long ago, Im not a troll.

Being a weekend warrior, I have seen them. Way more then 20...and way more then old boats and wrong bait...On the contrary. Many know exactly what they are doing and catch alot of fish. I am not saying comm. should be let off for poaching, nor recs.

Guess on this site its agree or shut up.

So where is this rec poacher 'hot spot'. Maybe we can get a few up on the blotter and we'll call it even.

["Dirty Girl"]

So in otherwords you don't know what you saw...

OK...

But if you did know what you saw you'd do something....Good on ya!


I didn't say I saw anyone doing anything. Stop trying to trip me up.


I can't go around asking how much net do you have out? How many fish you got in the cooler? How many baskets of females do you have? Its not my place. Like I said, there needs to be more enforcement. Its not my job but I'll tell you this, I would be just as quick to call in anyone, rec or comm...

[Chumbucket]

I didn't say I saw anyone doing anything. Stop trying to trip me up.


I can't go around asking how much net do you have out? How many fish you got in the cooler? How many baskets of females do you have? Its not my place. Like I said, there needs to be more enforcement. Its not my job but I'll tell you this, I would be just as quick to call in anyone, rec or comm...

You're not gonna get more enforcement, OK? If anything the enforcement level will decrease...

...and you have a problem...

So what do you want to do?

[poorbuck]

No but I'm getting the idea you can't spell .......... :D

COOL!!! You teach me how to SPELL and I'll teach you how to FISH!!! It's a win win!

[biglee1]

I guess you want to hear that DNR should continue restrictions on the only stakeholder they really have some control over with no cooperation with other agencies that control variables that have as big an impact on the environment as my stakeholders, because so far all the efforts that just seem to frustrate everyone have been working so well over the last 20-25 years.

Come to think of it the more that me and my agency get involved the worse things seem to get. I don't understand it!

[Boatdog]

While I'm sure a larger DNR presence wouldn't hurt, I think the bigger problem is what happens after the citation is issued. Take a look at Joseph Janda, it's obvious he has had plenty of interaction with law enforcement since he turned 18. It hasn't stopped him.

I agree rec. or comm., poaching is poaching. If you see it, don't hesitate to call DNR. It's your resources that are being stolen

[Chumbucket]

I guess you want to hear that DNR should continue restrictions on the only stakeholder they really have some control over with no cooperation with other agencies that control variables that have as big an impact on the environment as my stakeholders, because so far all the efforts that just seem to frustrate everyone have been working so well over the last 20-25 years.

Come to think of it the more that me and my agency get involved the worse things seem to get. I don't understand it!

Uhhhhhhhhhhh....I'd love to hear whatever you are saying if I understood it....What?

[biglee1]

He posed the question, if one was in charge of DNR what would they do?

[Ele]

If there are 7,759 licensed commercial fishermen in the Chesapeake Bay, how many are actively fishing, crabbing or oystering?

I mean, come on, there are watermen with licenses that are 90 years old. I doubt they are doing much fishing, crabbing or oystering.

Does anyone know how many licenses are issued to watermen who are actively using them?

Are the owners of LLC licenses counted in these 7,759 licenses, which are about to be suspended?

Ele

[mike2u]

It's always the comm's... Maybe if we have the Rec's report everything maybe things might change.. It's amazing to me to see all this about comm's and nothing is ever being said about how much the Rec's are just as much the problem..

[BigWillJ]

Chumbucket shapes who I am......but at nearing 10,000 posts, Skip is catching up to filling those shoes.....

That damn groundhog. Now we gotta put up with six more weeks of this?

[Chumbucket]

It's always the comm's... Maybe if we have the Rec's report everything maybe things might change.. It's amazing to me to see all this about comm's and nothing is ever being said about how much the Rec's are just as much the problem..

Show me a rec with 22,000 pounds of illegal fish and we might be able to intelligently discuss this...

One guy, one day, 22,000 pounds....You have a calculator handy? Who didn't get caught? Kinda makes ya wonder, eh?

[mike2u]

Thanks Ele I'm sure you are aware of whats going on.. It's not only the Comm's,,, But the Rec's have to be included in this somewhere...

[biglee1]

No, but 1000 recs keeping one extra fish at 20 pounds is close, and no law enforcement agency in the world can round up all the fisherman who take more than their limit on any given day across the bay. And everyone has seen someone, knows someone, or has done it themselves, catching their limit and heading back to the dock to return later that afternoon.

Greed has become so acceptable on such a wide scale in our world, that we only frown upon it when it goes to the extreme. We never have a problem with the hundreds of reports of 200 - 300 spot taken, because their is no real monitary value associated with it until all of sudden there aren't any around and we discover that the resource is in peril.

The problems we face are much larger than we recognize because we as a people have continuously degraded our morals and principles weither we are commercial, recreational, or just a consumer. Moritorium sounds good to some, but for those that are the very examples that are sighted in previous posts as poachers it means nothing.

But to say that one group or stakeholder is more responsible than another is just an attempt to justify a smaller wrongdoing.

[Chumbucket]

No, but 1000 recs keeping one extra fish at 20 pounds is close, and no law enforcement agency in the world can round up all the fisherman who take more than their limit on any given day across the bay. And everyone has seen someone, knows someone, or has done it themselves, catching their limit and heading back to the dock to return later that afternoon.

Greed has become so acceptable on such a wide scale in our world, that we only frown upon it when it goes to the extreme. We never have a problem with the hundreds of reports of 200 - 300 spot taken, because their is no real monitary value associated with it until all of sudden there aren't any around and we discover that the resource is in peril.

The problems we face are much larger than we recognize because we as a people have continuously degraded our morals and principles weither we are commercial, recreational, or just a consumer. Moritorium sounds good to some, but for those that are the very examples that are sighted in previous posts as poachers it means nothing.

But to say that one group or stakeholder is more responsible than another is just an attempt to justify a smaller wrongdoing.

Uh huh, and how many angels can dance on the head of a pin...The simple fact of the matter is NRP is out enforcing game and fish laws everyday...Comms get caught, recs get caught, and a whole lot get away....And all you apologists for the comm side? You know you are lying...

Why? Because what I saw from my limited comm side and the type of gear comms have available to them that recs do not...

22,000 pounds of fish?

And I never heard, comm apologists....Just how long would it take a good bunch of tongers to clear a bar....An illegal bar, an off limits bar...Hah?

If you have a fishery poaching problem, who are you going to go after first? The guy with a bucket under the bridge? Or the guy with the nets?

[biglee1]

You go after the POACHERS. Not the legal recreational fisherman nor the legal commercial fisherman. You like the whole steryotype thing don't you?

[Chumbucket]

You go after the POACHERS. Not the legal recreational fisherman nor the legal commercial fisherman. You like the whole steryotype thing don't you?

No...I go after the bang for the buck that has the most impact on the fishery...

I particularly would make it my mission in life to babysit those repeat offenders who seem to think the laws of Maryland are a joke...

And I'd ruin their day every chance I got...

[biglee1]

Cooperation is hard to come by when everyone is solely blaming the entire problem on one group or the other. Yet it seems that cooperation, on any level, is what we need the most.

[Chumbucket]

Cooperation is hard to come by when everyone is solely blaming the entire problem on one group or the other. Yet it seems that cooperation, on any level, is what we need the most.

That right? Why? Why is that what "we" need the most?

[poorbuck]

Of course you go after the guy with the net! The Sun Paper isn't gonna write a story about the guy with the bucket!

[Chumbucket]

Cooperation is hard to come by when everyone is solely blaming the entire problem on one group or the other. Yet it seems that cooperation, on any level, is what we need the most.

Come on bud? I want to hear all about it...I have pound nets and a hook and line license and I'm playing the numbers game...

What are you gonna do?

How are you gonna help the proverbial "we"?

[Chumbucket]

Of course you go after the guy with the net! The Sun Paper isn't gonna write a story about the guy with the bucket!

Why is that?

Oh I know...It's hard to get 22,000 pounds of fish in a bucket...

[biglee1]

lack of cooperation isn't exactly working too well

[candy]

Catch a poacher 24 hour hotline 1-800-635-6124

[Chumbucket]

lack of cooperation isn't exactly working too well

Better than letting Larry write the rules...Which is pretty much the state of affairs anyway...

What's up with those crab reports?

[Ele]

Chum, Larry always did say they were not all smart enough to fill out a catch report. Goes to show he knows what he is talking about.

Ele

[Chumbucket]

Chum, Larry always did say they were not all smart enough to fill out a catch report. Goes to show he knows what he is talking about.

Ele

Yeahhhhhhhh....Well, Larry said a lot of things....I was there that night when Larry suggested in the measured tones that can only come from an Eastern Shore or Southern Maryland delivery, that his boys would burn down the Tawes Building....Yuck, yuck, yuck...There was no joking that night...

Larry is smarter than most of what he confronts...

[mike2u]

REPORTS... you say.... Why can't the rec's report there catch then... Why is it that the COMM'S only have to report there catch... Why can't the Rec's have to report them also.. No big deal just submitting a monthly catch if you want to be honest and report what you catch.. How about all them Rec's I see every day putting there lines and traps in before start time... But it's always the Comm's that's the problem.. God forbid the Rec's say there's not a problem with them also...

[Chumbucket]

REPORTS... you say.... Why can't the rec's report there catch then... Why is it that the COMM'S only have to report there catch... Why can't the Rec's have to report them also.. No big deal just submitting a monthly catch if you want to be honest and report what you catch.. How about all them Rec's I see every day putting there lines and traps in before start time... But it's always the Comm's that's the problem.. God forbid the Rec's say there's not a problem with them also...

Hey! Great misdirection!

They're not required to? That's why...

Why did Larry say after the announcement of the restrictions that DNR would be apt to end up with inaccurate reports?

You know the answer to that?

And you know what? You want rec reporting? Well? Fine...Won't matter...This isn't a data game, it's not about science, those who still think so are fools...

It's political science...That's all it is...

Exhinit A: Larry

[Chumbucket]

Oh, and before any mouthbreathing Larry defenders become completely unhinged...

I'm gonna make this simple, just read the following slowly...

I have the utmost respect for Larry Simns, and the reason I have that respect is because he gets it and represents his people well. He knows his job and he does it well.

It's not even grudging respect, I know what he's defending...And at those hearings? The honest watermen? The guys trying to eek out a living between the evermore present regs and screwed up condition of the Bay? I pull for 'em...I want them to win...It's not right.

But I hate poachers, and I hate the nonsense, and I hate the DNR bullschiet cloaked as science...

An honest man ought to be able to make an honest living off that water, but that water won't support it right now.

[27 sailfish]

DNR does check a lot of recs out. It was a few years ago but on opening day - Candus wrote a story of spending time with a DNR officer.They checked a lot of boats both private and charter.If I remember right - there were tickets written.I consider charters as rec. fisherman.

No officer will admit to it but they know the honest and dishonest people out there.They will check everybody to keep it fair but keep an eye out for the ones they know play dirty.

I know 6-7 officers on a first name basis and they often come over to check my catch.Now/then they get on board and give a look around.I've watched them check 30 boats in a row.Now/then I see a ticket being written - not sure for what.Most recs struggle to catch even a two Rockfish limit - few have the skill to really load the boat.A good officer can tell when someone is breaking the law - call it gut feeling.

A netter on the other hand can catch a lot in a short time.Look at the 22,000 lbs reported.That is 11 TONS of Yellow Perch :eek2:.

I'm hoping that the honest watermen get fed up with the ones poaching and "handle it" .

[rhahn427]

COOL!!! You teach me how to SPELL and I'll teach you how to FISH!!! It's a win win!

37lb rock ...... 30 inch flounder ....... 25" Spanish ........... all in 2008

Guess I'll have to teach you how to spell AND fish ........:D

[mike2u]

Yea ok... Then maybe they should come up with a way for the Rec's to have to report there catch.. As adimit as you are about this I would think you would be on board that Rec's should have a way to report there catch... Hey the internet is a great thing.. Why ask each rec to please submit a catch report each month if you can.. Oh yea I forgot.. I'm sure they won't be as honest as they say they would be..

[jnelson]

37lb rock ...... 30 inch flounder ....... 25" Spanish ........... all in 2008

Guess I'll have to teach you how to spell AND fish ........:D

And I'll teach both of ya how to CATCH!:clapping2::clap::clapping2::clap::

[Chumbucket]

Yea ok... Then maybe they should come up with a way for the Rec's to have to report there catch.. As adimit as you are about this I would think you would be on board that Rec's should have a way to report there catch... Hey the internet is a great thing.. Why ask each rec to please submit a catch report each month if you can.. Oh yea I forgot.. I'm sure they won't be as honest as they say they would be..

In theory? I love it...the more data the better...

In practice? In the real world we inhabit? Doesn't mean squat....The BEST data DNR has are the winter dredge surveys and they don't mean anything in the face of bullschiet reporting from the comms...

Science doesn't mean anything anymore....Got it?

You could go manage the last buffalo in Montana in the late 1800's and feel good about yourself...

Adopt a carrier pigeon?

[mike2u]

Actually the winter dredge is not exact science,,, but it's been pretty close.. I caught more crabs last year then I have in years,, and also let ton's of small crabs go. I don't think that the dredge is perfect... But I do believe that the crab POP not as bad as they say.. Last year was one of my best years... There were more more small crabs coming up then I could imagine... If they last the winter and all Them DAMN ROCK FISH... maybe we can see a better then average year...

[poorbuck]

Your braggin on a 37lb rock?? Sorry but the 30" flounder is all im givin ya credit for!!!! But at least you can spell better then me!:clap:

[Chumbucket]

Actually the winter dredge is not exact science,,, but it's been pretty close.. I caught more crabs last year then I have in years,, and also let ton's of small crabs go. I don't think that the dredge is perfect... But I do believe that the crab POP not as bad as they say.. Last year was one of my best years... There were more more small crabs coming up then I could imagine... If they last the winter and all Them DAMN ROCK FISH... maybe we can see a better then average year...

Well? Let's put it this way, it's a heck of a lot more telling than a good portion of their "science".

[rhahn427]

Your braggin on a 37lb rock?? Sorry but the 30" flounder is all im givin ya credit for!!!! But at least you can spell better then me!:clap:

What no credit for the Spanish .......... That's a Rock from Upper Bay MD ........ not like the CBBT or the Ocean ........

And SOMETIMES I can spell .........

[mike2u]

Yep you are right,,, From what I heard from the Wye River up to the Elk River it's was some of the best crabs they have gotten in years,, and thats from the comm's, but the rec's... They were crabbing 2,3 4 times a week because the crabs were plently full and big... Did I question them no,,, it's there right to crab,,, But trust me Rec's crabbing 2,3,4 times a week should at least be reporting there crab catch..

[rhahn427]

And I'll teach both of ya how to CATCH!:clapping2::clap::clapping2::clap::

........ what .... the clap .......:D

no thanks !!!!!

["Dirty Girl"]

You're not gonna get more enforcement, OK? If anything the enforcement level will decrease...

...and you have a problem...

So what do you want to do?


did I not say what you wanted? :hysterical:

[kidz]

Maybe the DNR will pay simms to give a class on filling out forms for the recs. Hope he does a better job then what some waterman did.

[Black Irish]

Yea ok... Then maybe they should come up with a way for the Rec's to have to report there catch.. As adimit as you are about this I would think you would be on board that Rec's should have a way to report there catch... Hey the internet is a great thing.. Why ask each rec to please submit a catch report each month if you can.. Oh yea I forgot.. I'm sure they won't be as honest as they say they would be..


Really Mikie? Sounds like you know something. How long have you had your comm license? A few years now? Did you report what you caught when you were a rec? You know what I'm talking about.

You live in a glass house pal... put down the rock.

[dcriii5]

9 pages and it comes to the recs need to report, recs poach...

I guess that's what you get when you elect poachers and criminals into leadership positions...stupidity and deflection

[Black Irish]

dcriii5 - nice spin, huh? Typical comm 'dogpile' approach that they always resort to whenever they have to fall back into damage control mode. Lately, that's every other day, it seems. It doesn't help their public opinion any, that's for sure. Poaching is a pretty defenseless act.

[Matt]

I guarantee if marine police reported a "rec" who was trolling before opening day, putting rockfish in the box, the criticism and outcry hhere would be every bit as harsh against a fellow rec. Flagrant violations should result in suspension of privledges. I don't think many recs would have it any othher way.

[Megabyte]

Not anti commercial - anti poacher.

:thumbup:

[Porkchunker]

I got on the site not too long ago, Im not a troll.

Being a weekend warrior, I have seen them. Way more then 20...and way more then old boats and wrong bait...On the contrary. Many know exactly what they are doing and catch alot of fish. I am not saying comm. should be let off for poaching, nor recs.

Guess on this site its agree or shut up.

So...if you've seen them, did you call the "Poacher Hot-Line" and report them? Or did you turn the other way like the MWA?

All of us have to step up to the plate and do a better job of self-enforcement. If we see either rec or comm doing something illegal, we shouldn't hesitate to take pics (if possible) and call the DNR.


Dave

aka

[barrell]

That we know about. That got caught.

My guess is that the proportion of dishonest watermen is probably pretty close to the number of dishonest rec guys.

Probably 50% consider it a personal integrity issue and always follow the rules.
50% break a rule now and then if they think they can get away with it.
Half of those push the hours or hide a 17 3/4" fish
Half of those regularly poach
Half of those have poacher as a job title, have been caught multiple times and do more damage than all the others combined.

The problem comes in when you see just how much damage a few watermen can do to the resource. Hundreds of thousands of pounds of spawning stripers.

Real damage.
Paxfish, I spent 18 year working as a marine deputy game warden in NJ. Your percenatages are about what I would estimate for recs. But when it comes to comms Its more like 80 % poachers and 20 % law abiding. And those 20% keep their mouth shut about the 80% who are out of control killing off the reources.