Range finders

[speck hunter]

Thinking about getting a range finder mainly for muzzy hunting nothing more then a couple of hundred yards, Anybody been happy with one they have purchased?
Thanks

[spreaderbar]

bushnell yardage pro does the trick for me not to expensive but works great.

[Russ D]

I think they make it a little too easy. Correctly judging yardage is a finely honed skill and part of the challenge.

[Isabelle]

You know russ I've got a range finder and have never used it, even when I have it with me out west where the distances will fool you. I normallly get them out after the shot. A few years back i pulled a shot out of my a$$. I was antelope hunting in wyoming. I had a cross wind of atleast 20 mph. The pronghorn was in the 400 yd range. I guess at where to aim. That cross wind really messes with your mind. Earlier in the day I listened to the guide and missed high. I'm a firm believer in holding on the animal, even if its at the hair line at the top of the back.
Well, long story short, you couldn't have placed the shot any better, its back legs buckled when I hit it, it went 15 yds and fell over dead. I ranged it after the shot and it was 435yds.
They are a nice toy, but it does take the challenge out of it.
I don't think they are necessary for bow hunting, but If guys on the east cost goes out west and aren't use to those wide open spaces, I can see why they want to use them.

[crabby and son]

I have a Leica 800 and it works great. It is a higher end unit...about $500.00. I disagree with the range being part of the challenge. When you hunt, you owe it to the animal to make a quick and clean kill. Guessing at distances ends up making bad shots and wounding animals. If you can accurately range 300-800 yards you don't need a range finder. I have been hunting for 47 years and I can not.

[Russ D]

By that logic bow hunting isn't ethical.

[Russ D]

Thinking about getting a range finder mainly for muzzy hunting nothing more then a couple of hundred yards, Anybody been happy with one they have purchased?
Thanks

I'm sorry to take your post in a wrong direction. A few buddies who use them swear by the Nikons for good value and performance.

[crabby and son]

By that logic bow hunting isn't ethical.

Russ, You are comparing apples and oranges.......... judging 10,15,20 to 40 yards is not the same as 300-800 yards. If you can accurately judge those distances.......you are better than 90% of the pro hunters that use a range finder. Don't know you so if you say you can, you can...........Gary

[VaFisher54]

Getting back to the question, I have Leupold and Nikon. Both work well but I seem to favor the Leupold and the reason for two is my wife hunts also.

[Russ D]

Russ, You are comparing apples and oranges.......... judging 10,15,20 to 40 yards is not the same as 300-800 yards. If you can accurately judge those distances.......you are better than 90% of the pro hunters that use a range finder. Don't know you so if you say you can, you can...........Gary

Well I do spend alot of time shooting at those distances, but I don't consider myself some kind of expert. Any good flat shooting rifle with a 200 yrd. zero will make up for anything but a ciritcal misjudgement of range. At anything over 400 yrds. and unless you are shooting off the ground from a bipod you are pretty much asking for trouble. You would be better served learning to dope the wind and how to accurately judge distance using a scope made for long distance than you would using a laser rangefinder. Even then if you actually had room for those kinds of shots then I absolutely agree you would need a laser rangefinder for any chance of a hit. We shoot out to about 600 yrds when groundhog hunting and I can tell you that even a 5-10 mph will give you a windrift measured in feet at those distances. Shooting 1k stuff that bucks the wind alittle better you still are sometimes holding a good bit off the target in any kind of wind. MY adivce is shoot something flat like a 300 WM or 270, zero at 200 and anything up to 400 is just a minimal correction in hold with alot more room for error.

[crabby and son]

The more you say the more I understand your reasoning. It has a lot to do with the gun you are shooting and your zero. I shoot groundhogs with a 22-250 with hand loaded ammo. I shoot many ground hogs locally and although I take it fairly serious, it's not like going out west for a 500 yard shot at a trophy mule deer! I then shoot a 7mm Ultra mag which is on the backbone at 400. I simply don't like guessing on how high to hold off the animals back. I guess it all has to do with where I am, what I am shooting for and of course.......the distance, as to a range finder or not. I hate missing!

When I bow hunt, I don't range animals but I do range landmarks around me when I first go up the tree. There are too many other things that can go wrong but I try to eliminate the ones I can control.

I guess the bottom line of this discussion is that I prefer the technology over guessing. I like my Garmin 545S fish finder also. I'm not guessing where they are either! I'm in it to win it!.....but each to their own.....Reading through our discussions will help others decide if they want a range finder or not also. Gary

[speck hunter]

Crabby that is exactly why I am intrested in a range finder, Im not into guessing distance I want a clean kill and not track a deer all night. Maybe some of you guys have been guessing for years not me kinda knew to muzzy hunting and I hunt alot of wide open spaces so I want to make the most of my oppourtunity incase it presents itself,

[Russ D]

Effective range of a muzzleoader is what, 200 yrds? Misjudging by 30-40 yrds at that range will only cause a matter of inches difference, Anyone can learn to accurately judge distances of under 200 yrds. If you are planning longer shots with a muzzleloader then more power to you. I'm not trying to do anything here other than save you money. You don't need a rangefinder for what you are doing. What caliber and load are you shooting? Let's look at if from a ballistic chart point of view. It's more about where you zero your gun. Then go to the range and find out what zero gives you basically the same hold out to 200 yrds. See where a 150 yrd. zero prints at 50 yrds. You may be able to hold on the same spot form 0-150 yrds and then maybe just a little higher out at 200. Things happen so fast in the field that this would be a far more effective hunting strategy then expecting to be able to range every shot. If you hunt from a stand then just spend some time in the offseason walking it off.

[spreaderbar]

yes i agree to know your wepons but russ not everyones as perfect as you seem to be at judgeing distances. Go with a range finder then you will know dont guess its not worth it to you or the ANIMAL. ., i bow, muzzleload,and gun hunt and have great success but i still want to know how far. The higher up in a tree you go the more distance will fool you. its not to hard to judge on the ground!

[Russ D]

My point was more about setting up the gun so that your point of aim won't be much different even if you are off on your estimates. We are talking about a firearm capable of some pretty good ballistics. My point was not to claim how great I am at judging distances. My point was that at the effective range of muzzloader you can negate the need for one. Now if you are interested in making 300 yrd. shots then it would definitely be important, but then we would be getting into the range of being unfair to the animal. To do that regularly then you would need to practice at those ranges and know in real world conditions exactly how your setup shoots at that range. Then a matter of 20 yrd variance would really matter and warrant a range finder. Hey it's his money and I wasn't telling anyone not to buy one. I was just offereng a somewhat educated opinion on the subject.

[speck hunter]

I appreiciate all advice, I just got back into deer hunting and I guess you could say im kind of in the learning curve but in a stand I dont think I could judge 100 yards or 150 yards accurately. I have heard about too many deer getting shot and not found. I do belive we owe it to the animal to make a well advised shot in all conditions and thats why I am intrested in a range finder, Do I want to spend more money on toys No but......... I would hate to miss that oppoutunity on a Boone and Crockett because I aimed 30-40 yards too high.

[Russ D]

See this is exactly my point zeroed at 125 or maybe 150 you wouldn't change where you hold on the deer frm 0 out to about 175 and you would still be right on the money. Now this depends on your load and gun, but learning how your gun shoots and real life drop at extended range is exactly what the offseason is for. So if you are 2 inches high at 100 and maybe 2 inches low at 150 you are eliminating the need to hold off of the vitals for any shot you take. Are you guys getting what I'm saying? I'll pull some ballistic tables and see if I can better illustrate what I'm trying to explain. Spechunter can you tell me what bullet and load you are shooting and what kind of gun?

[speck hunter]

I am shooting a TC OMEGA 50 cal. 150 grains of loose powder and 245 grain sabot. I just put the new leupold ultimate slam scope on my gun and its a very intresting scope go to the leupold website and check it out, I do belive if I center at 100 yards the relief of either side is very minor,Up a notch for 50 yards, Just below the crosshairs for 150
The goal of every hunter is a successful hunt with a cleanly made harvest.
Whether a hunter is pursuing big game or varmints, it is imperative that he or
she strive to make a quick, humane kill. It is with this in mind that Leupold has
introduced the SAbot Ballistics Reticle, a tool intended to allow muzzleloader
and shotgun shooters to make solid hits and clean kills at longer ranges.
The SAbot Ballistics Reticle® reticles give hunters a series of very useful tools
intended to bring about successful hunts with clean and efficient harvests.
Through the use of these straightforward and easy-to-follow instructions, it is
sincerely hoped that all hunters will find their skills improved and their hunts
more successful.

[Russ D]

.40 QT Spitzer Polymer Tip 215 grain - 110 grains powder - BC .319 - .45 caliber sabot
Distance (yards) Muzzle 25 50 75 100 125 150 175 200 225 250
Velocity (fps) 1900 1843 1787 1732 1679 1628 1579 1531 1484 1439 1395
Kinetic Energy (ft lb) 1723 1620 1523 1432 1347 1265 1189 1118 1052 988 929
Trajectory - .5 1.8 2.5 2.5 1.6 0 2.5 6.0 10.4 15.9


This represents a common muzzleloading set-up for hunting. Now zeroed at 150 yrds you would never be hitting more than 2.5 inches from point of aim out to 200 yrds. Meaning if the deer is within 200 yrds. you will always aim right for his heart. From 200 on you can see the substantial change in the amount of drop which also is very relative to the amount of energy left for an effective kill. So if the effective range to maintain 1000 ft lb.s(which is the legal limit in Md.) is 200 yrds. Then once zeroed at 150 you don't have to do anythig inside your killing range other than aim for the vitals.

[speck hunter]

Very intresting I see your logic
Thanks

[Russ D]

I wasn't trying to come off as an expert. I just was proposing what I thought might be a better approach to your situation, rather than just spending cash and not really getting a return on your money.

[speck hunter]

Russ did you get a chance to read up on the ultimate slam?
Leupold claims you can judge the distance plus or minus 200 yards with the scope itself

[Russ D]

Not yet but I'll check it out. Rangefinding scopes have been out since the first world war and they can be very effective. The key is tog et as much practice and experience using it.

[fw5109]

Part of ethical hunting requires that the hunter be confident in his abilities. If the rangefinder provides additional confidence for the hunter, then so be it. I've hunted all over the U.S. and in Canada w/ bow, rifle, and muzzleloader -- and always have a rangefinder. This doesn't mean that I always break it out when the moment of truth arrives, but if there's time, I will. Usually, I use it as a tool to simply pass time in the field and to see how far away things are. This helps you judge more accurately and boost your confidence when the time comes. Trying to use the surroundings at a shooting range to become an accurate distance estimator is hardly the same as building your skills in the field w/ a rangefinder. I have a Nikon 600 and am pleased w/ it.

[speck hunter]

Fw I agree with you too
I just need to get some kills at differant distances

[crabby and son]

Get a rangefinder..........are ya going to put a range finding scope on every gun. One miss on a good animal will pay for it:clap::clap:...........Gary

[BottomKnocker]

Russ makes a good point and it takes alot of thought out of the matter when you're going to take the shot. I also shoot a 7mm, flat shooting like a 270. Out to 200 just put it on the vitals .However i do use a range finder from time to time. I believe it is more beneficial during bow season. I range landmarks, trees , etc. from my climbing stand after taking my guess which improves my judgement on yardages or confirms my guess. A 5 yard +/- with a bow is a much bigger difference due to the arch of the flight of the arrow. You will be surprised how distances can be decieving from up in that tree and the only way to know for sure is with a range finder.

[Russ D]

Flat shooting rifles and bows are absolutely things you might need a rangefinder for if you have the ability and space to make good long shots. I'm not anti-rangefinder. My point was solely based on a certain situation where you can greatly improve your chance at making the right shot without the help or need to buy another peice of equipment. Another thing I forgot to mention is wind drift. You can see based on my chart the amount of windrift in many cases exceeds the amount of drop. That means you would need to be better at gauging the wind then the distance to make a good shot at long range. I believe this is comepletely lost on those who don't shoot at extended ranges on a regular basis. A rangefinder gives you no help in determining how to shoot in wind.