Gill net marks?

[fly flinger]

Out of the 14 Hickories I landed 5 had severe gill net damage to the scales just in front of the dorsal fin. All the scales were rubbed off in this area. Did not catch any fish larger than 14 to 15". One would guess the larger fish are now in the super market?

What happens to the American shad and striped bass that get trapped in the gill nets? By-catch is a dirty little secret. Let's get the nets banned and require the commercial fishermen to use hook & line same as the recreational fishers. In this manner the banned and out of season fish could be released immediately.:helpsmilie:

[Ken Tidy]

FF where are you fishing Deer Creek , Fletchers?

Ken

[Salmo trutta]

First, where were you fishing? Second, maybe it's from the fish flipping and wrapping over the line. Very unlikely it has anything to do with gill nets. They are used in places by fish and wildlife, and a variety of other agencies, some commercial fishermen, some recreational, poachers etc but once they are caught, they are caught. If you caught 15 with marks, you should have caught them from the net.

What is more than likely happening, if the fish is caught on a two fly rig especially, the fish is wrapping on the leader during the fight.

[fly flinger]

Rappahannock River, downstream from fredericksburg there are commercial gill nets by the dozens. The marks on the shad couldn't have come from my 6 pound leader. They were not deep like a blue heron strike. I will have to remember my camera next time.

[martineta]

Gill Nets target specific sized fish. Fish to large bump into the net and then swim under or around it. VMRS does not allow nets smaller than 3.75 inch stretch to be used during the spring spawning season. Smaller fish push through the nets. Yet another posting by a holier than thou elitest Flyfisherman. I love fly fishing buy geez ,,,the attitudes of some of our ranks. I always kill a few row shad for their eggs and the fish ends up buried in my vegetable garden.....Me bad.

[fly flinger]

Killing a few shad isn't BAD but netting thousands could be really bad when a percentage of those fish will be non-targeted species such as American Shad (protected) and striped bass.

Shad are a very important forage fish for larger predator species some of which are in bad shape (blue fin tuna).

Every state that has banned nets has seen a tremendous rebound of sport fish populations. That rebound has helped many small businesses and increased the sale of fishing licenses.

That's my "attitude" towards raping the waters for the benefit of a few to the detriment of many.

Argentina...no gracias.

[billx8]

What is with shad that are missing the rear portion of their gill covers? I see this quite a bit, year after year. I always figured it was a disease but this thread is interesting. IMO it is absurd to allow netting. Florida doesn't and guess what? They have fish. I spent the winter in Jacksonville (an unlikely fishing location) and the fishing was worlds better than anything in Va or NC. I caught nice trout right downtown and that was the worst of it.

[Tissy Furnes]

I think all fishing should be banned. Then there would be more fish than ever. But I would have one exception.

Only one fisherman should be allowed to fish and that would be me. The justification -- I don't think others should be pemitted regardless of whether they use nets, spears, fly rods or their hands to catch fish that I otherwise might be able to catch. If 10 percent of the fisherman catch 90 percent of the fishing, then under my proposal 1 fisherman would catch all the fish. Even though I am a successful fisherman and would fish more than ever I would hardly make a dent in fish populations. So this would be a victory for conservation.

As a consolation I would post pictures and reports on tidalfish and you all could read about them and live vicariously through my success.

[Salmo trutta]

I've seen the portion of the gill missing on some shad too. Not sure what that is. Could be, only speculating, a form of marking the fish for identification purposes.

[billx8]

Salmo, I don't mean to be argumentive, but deliberate marking seems unlikely. I have seen a lot of fish disfigured in this way in lots of different rivers in really every year. Howard may be able to clear this up if anybody can. The way these fish are disfigured just might be compatible with having been ripped out of a gill net.

[HJS]

Short gill flaps is something I've seen in trout, both hatchery and stream born. Maybe see 5 to 10 per 1000 trout in the wild. Also see it in little YOY trout. Purely a birth deformity. Can't says I've seen many (if any) shad with short gills flaps though.

Don't know if its just my foggy memory or what, but the hickories this year at Fletchers seem a little smaller than normal. Only one trip this spring have I gotten into some decent sized hickories... otherwise its been dinks only, only a few inches bigger than herring.

[fly flinger]

REGULATION: SUMMARY OF GILL NET LAWS (http://www.mrc.virginia.gov/regulations/gillnetrules.shtm)

From January 1 through March 25, it is unlawful to set or fish gill nets with stretched mesh size between 3 3/4" and 6" within the restricted areas described below, except that during February any legally licensed fisherman may set or fish gill nets with stretched mesh size from 5" to 6" within the restricted areas described below. From March 26 through June 15, it is unlawful to set or fish gill nets with stretched mesh size greater than 6" within the restricted areas described below except as described by 4 VAC 20-252-135.

From April 1 through May 31, the spawning reaches of the James, Pamunkey, Mattaponi and Rappahannock Rivers are closed to stake and anchor gill nets. Drift gill nets may be set and fished in these areas, provided that the gillnetter remains with the net while it is fishing and all striped bass caught must be returned to the water immediately [4 VAC 20-252-30].

REGULATION: PERTAINING TO AMERICAN SHAD (http://www.mrc.virginia.gov/regulations/fr530.shtm)

It shall be unlawful for any person to possess aboard a vessel more than 10 American shad. When more than one registered and permitted fisherman is fishing on the same vessel, it shall be unlawful to possess more than 10 American shad aboard that vessel.


American shad harvested only as bycatch by anchored gill nets and staked gill nets may be possessed or retained for sale in accordance with the provisions of this regulation. It shall be unlawful for any person to harvest, land or possess any American shad taken by any commercial gear, except anchored gill net or staked gill net, or any recreational gear.

This pdf file has a tremendous amount of info for shad in VA.

http://www.mrc.virginia.gov/vsrfdf/pdf/F116-R10_Final.pdf

[CaptMikeStarrett]

Rappahannock River, downstream from fredericksburg there are commercial gill nets by the dozens. The marks on the shad couldn't have come from my 6 pound leader. They were not deep like a blue heron strike. I will have to remember my camera next time.


A lot of rec gill nets too searching for gizzard/mud shad for bait.

Capt Mike

[THATSNEAKYMURRET]

Im not even getting in this one. I work on a gill net boat in the bay and the ocean and I work on them in the fall winter and spring and I will tell you different mesh catch different size fish. The only time you could catch the shad is during spot, and croaker season and I can honestly say I can count on my hands the number of american and hickory shad I have caught in our nets. If you see those marks you are prob. seeing marks by rec. fisherman trying to get bait because I dont really now anyone that is a commercial fisherman that targets these fish.

[fly flinger]

The marks that are on both sides of the shad are consistent with squeezing through a net of some type. The scales are missing at the top in front of the dorsal fin and then down the wider parts of the body. I just wonder where the larger shad have gone. We used to catch females as long as 25", so far, not this year.

Several years ago a biologist from VIMS displayed charts showing commercial gill net operations on Virginia's rivers. He stated he was surprised any shad could reach Fredericksburg. Local restaurants are selling shad roe which has to come from our waters.

[capt_gordon]

I could tell you a few things about fighting with gill netters.:cool2:

[fly flinger]

I'm listening.:clap:

[cuhollow]

Several years ago a biologist from VIMS displayed charts showing commercial gill net operations on Virginia's rivers.

Are you talking about the pound nets? I thought gill nets can only be set for a couple hours and then have to be removed.

[fly flinger]

I can't remember what type of nets the biologist was describing. After reading the VMRC regs I was a tad confused as to what they meant. Kinda like our US tax code.

[billx8]

The ones I've seen have generally been bilateral. I'll try to get a photo if the water clears.

BTW, I ignore all messages that pretend to be from commercial fisherman. IMO they are all trolls. None of them would know a 6 wt from a 6x.

[martineta]

How about Comorants. The James River near Richmond is covered up with thousands of those fish eating machines as also Tens of thousands of Spawning Striped Bass which are feasting on all the shad and herring in the river right now. Before I left for Argentina Easter Sunday, I fished every evening from 4:00 PM until an hour or two after dark for two weeks. The stripers at dusk roll around like hogs as far as you can see in every direction. I am sorry if you are covered up with gill nets. The only gill nets I see on the James from Hopewell to Richmond are those that the catfish guides and recreational catfishermen, (like me) set for a few minutes to catch the 8 or so gizzard shad we need for cut bait. I have not caught the first shad that appeared to be injured from gill nets. I have caught quite a few this year for the first time that have bite marks from lampreys and even a dozen or so that still had the lamprey attached. Disgusting

[THATSNEAKYMURRET]

Billx8 "The ones I've seen have generally been bilateral. I'll try to get a photo if the water clears.

BTW, I ignore all messages that pretend to be from commercial fisherman. IMO they are all trolls. None of them would know a 6 wt from a 6x.



Hey billx8 I didnt say anything rude I just put my 2cents in just like everyone else is entitled to do. Just letting them know i dont know of a market for these fish that anyone that is trying to make money would waste their time on. I believe everyone has a right to fish and not hateing on the man for his concern about the shad population, but just hopefully i can edjucate just a little bit about what is going on, After all isnt that what this website was made for to edjucate and to help others out. I appreciate your remarks about commercial fisherman,REALLY.

[jamann4]

I have caught some hickories out of the rappahannock this year that have had the lampereys still attached as well. Thought I was somewhat hardcore when it comes to critters in the outdoors, but I was very reluctant to grab the shad with the 10inch lamperey attached to it..shad splashed around a bit and eel eventually came off...guess the lampereys have to eat too.

[martineta]

What I did notice about the harsh negative posters is that every single one is a cheap skate and does not support tidalfish financially. I do love to fly fish but I will say it again, the holier than thou attitude of some of our ranks embarasses me. I feel the negative postings are basically folks jumping to conclusions based on zero information. I support Tidalfish.

[fly flinger]

Fly Fishing In Salt Waters Mar/Apr issue page 58 "EYEING the FUTURE"

Ted Williams discovered what he considered the best bone fishing he had experienced on St. Croix in the 60's - 70's.

Dr. Adams article “EYEING THE FUTURE” reminded me that I had 35mm slides of net fishermen on the beach at Frederiksted, St. Croix, USVI.
I have been back to St. Croix to search for bones to no avail. Dr. Adams explained the why & wherefore. I had no idea Ted Williams had fished the island and I can attest to the scarcity of bone fish. I worked as a commercial diver and spent countless hours under water around the island. I never saw a bone fish, permit or tarpon in all those years.

[capt_gordon]

Gill netters are a bane to the future of fisheries everywhere. We are fighting them tooth and nail here in NC and it looks like they have hijacked our recent attempt in the NC legislature to get reds and specks listed as gamefish. If you are not familiar with what is going on down here check my blog, youtube page and the new blog for the NCFRG. It is fixin to git ugly!