Wellcraft 210 coastal or Triumph 215 CC

[Tournament Cat]

Looking to upsize from a 16' bay boat to a 21' boat to take offshore. The Wellcraft 210 coastal will have a hard top. The Triumph 215 center console will have the fish package. Both are leftover 2008's and both pretty close to the same price. Im pretty familiar with triuph boats because a couple of the guys at my marina own them and they like them alot but Im not very familiar with the Wellcraft boats. Any input would be greatly appreciated:helpsmilie::helpsmilie:ed

[VBMaycraft]

Wellcraft is a better boat - but a 21' boat offshore is not advisable. Fuel capacity would be an issue not to mention the ability to handle sea conditions. Also, you would be better with a boat that had twin screws. Up size for offshore would need you to look at a 26ft boat minimum and the larger the better.

Doug

[FishnCrisis]

History of my wife's boat
Her 2005 Triumph 210CC is 1/2 foot shorter than the one you are considering. We did not set out to fish offshore with this rig. We bought the boat because it floats in 18" of water for sandbar parties, carries a crabbing trotline in very shallow water, pulls kids on tubes, holds 8 peoiple comfortably (actually rated for 10), allowed me to do any in-shore fishing I could think up, trailers where ever I wish to launch it, is very affordable to run (Honda BF150 4-stroke), and was affordable to purchase.

Offshore Fishing
Once I got bitten by the off-shore bug, I made some special modifications. I used a the 100 qt cooler, a 72 qt cooler, and canyon bag for ice, bait, and fish. I have my boat rigged Raymarine chart plotter, sounder, and radar. I troll using Taco telescoping outriggers (double rigged) and triple kite rod holders from the rear rod holder, which allows me to run between 5 and 8 rods in my spread. I have 70 gallon fuel tank on board and carry 12 gallons in racing cans with Flo-Fast Fluid tansfer pump for a total range of 217 statue miles. I have VHF with the tallest antenna I could mount and I carry a SPOT on all trips. (I have looked into a life raft and would suggest it for all boats, but have yet to purchase one myself.)

In 2009, I have covered over 1,500 miles on the water, 1,200 since 6/13. We have caught flounder, seabass, ling cod, spiny dogs, bluefin tuna, yellowfin tuna, Atlantic bonita, oceanic bonita, and mahi. At my furthest point this year I was over 70 miles from port.

Drawbacks
Yes I got my butt kicked on a few occasions. In a Triumph, a 12-inch chop will hurt you more than 6-foot seas. I have run on both this spring and summer. If you watch you wind direction, it does not take much of an angle to allow that light boat to ride up over a lot of badness. However, it can never cut the waves like a heavier boat.

Benefits
The boat is made of plastic, so clean-up take only a few minutes with a pressure washer. I never wax the boat. I can launch it almost anywhere the fish happen to be (Lewes, Indian River, Ocean City, and Wachapreague so far this year). I caught bluefin tuna, while burning only 32 gallons of fuel. I caught yellowfin tuna, while burning only 46 gallons of fuel. You cannot eat tuna any cheaper than that..............

Common Sense
No matter what 21 foot rig you are running, you are the smallest in the misquito fleet. You need to be sure you have all safety items covered, a prepared crew, and you must know your equipment. Remember, you have chosen to leave all of the fluff at the dock. Good luck, be careful, and have fun.

[TEAM BILL ME]

:jackthread::jackthread::jackthread::jackthread::j ackthread:
you would be better if a boat that had twin screws. Up size for offshore would need you to look at a 26ft boat minimum and the larger the better.

Doug

I beg to differ,,,, my 24.4 Bimini inboard single diesel has been offshore (over 100 fathoms) over 30 times,, any countless boats of the same brand before her.
But the Bimini does rides like a much larger offshore boat.

So take a look at The Bimini,, pocket Battlewagon.
youll have to go in a jon boat to get better fuel economy also.

[Mike McCabe]

Tournament Cat,
You probably ought to read Governor's post "lucky day at Oregon Inlet" before you think of buying a 21 ft. boat for offshore fishing. In my opinion, 21 ft. is not safe for playing out in the big water or venturing through unforgiving inlets. Not trying to be a jerk or anything, just trying to help. There is a couple of really good threads on the Virginia board illustrating just how quik things can go horribly wrong. Think about it good.

Mike-Red Eye
24 Topaz

[Stumpknocker]

I haven't fished offshore in years, but in 1990 by father bought a 19' Grady White that we ran to the 21 mile hill and the Jackspot often, depending on where we launched from. Soon after he bought the 19' boat, he upgraded to a 22' grady which we used for for shark and tuna fishing.

The key to running a small boat is the weather. This was before the internet weather forcasts, so we would listen to the weather band on our vhf radio for several says before we went out to find out the conditions before we ventured out. We always went out if the weather was stable for a day before our trip and of course, the day of our trip. We didn't want to deal with seas that were still bumpy from a few days of high winds. We never really had any problems because we knew the limitations of our boat and weren't afraid to get out if things look questionable. You just have to knew the weather. What winds will make a trip dangerous. Don't go out when fronts are approaching and could make the weather turn.

To answer your question, I would use the Wellcraft, on a calm day.

[jfish]

You may want to heed McCabe's suggestion?? Have I done it? Sure,. but is was a lot younger (stupid), and I don't feel nearly as lucky as I did 25 years ago. Father Time has a way of doing that for us... All it took was one well planned day that went south to cause me to buy all "offhore vest", the best EPIRB they offerred at the time, install a second VHF, add/increase the bilge pumps and place whistles, flares, and mirrors on every vest. I still went a few times in the small boat but like I said (see 2ND sentence .....stupid) Nothing sucks more than being stuck outside the inlet because it has gotten bad and you don;t have the fuel to run to the next closest Inlet. Spent five hours waiting outside hoping it would improve, finally jumped in line with 6-7 other larger boats and surfed in. Two boats ahead of us took one through the windshield, hearing the Charter Capt yelling to the other boats was hair raising. Of course the following will get your attention also, not much scarier than hearing the USCG searching for people/bodies in the inlet as you're coming in, and you're watching the ebb tide roll as the sun goes down..... Hate being the bearer of bad news but like Mike has suggested "think about it good."

With WX like it has been this season in a 21' boat you could have only gone "safely" a few days." Even then days can start off real nice with a great forecast then go bad. Never forget a day back in the early 90s out of HI with bluebird skys light winds. Three hours later, 35 miles out it was blowing a gale without warning and the inlet was 13'. Had one break over the stern of a 42 Hatteras that day as we were trying to reel in flatlines and run for the inlet. Can still see those gold Penns shinning under water as she came over the stern and continued knee deep throught the doors into the salon. Took about all of 2 seconds to happen...:eek2:

If you are a weekend fisherman in a 21' boat you're either going to spend a lot of days standing on the dock cussing the WX man or you'll be living danergously. Once you go you will be hooked and be wishing for more boat. Save your cash and hold off till you can buy what you need. If you don't have to bucks, buy an older but larger boat, and go through it, building an offshore rig, knowing what you have. It's well worth the wait and will significantly reduce stress you experience will fishing offshore.

just my 2.5 cents worth....;-)

[Mike McCabe]

You may want to heed McCabe's suggestion?? Have I done it? Sure,. but is was a lot younger (stupid), and I don't feel nearly as lucky as I did 25 years ago. Father Time has a way of doing that for us... All it took was one well planned day that went south to cause me to buy all "offhore vest", the best EPIRB they offerred at the time, install a second VHF, add/increase the bilge pumps and place whistles, flares, and mirrors on every vest. I still went a few times in the small boat but like I said (see 2ND sentence .....stupid) Nothing sucks more than being stuck outside the inlet because it has gotten bad and you don;t have the fuel to run to the next closest Inlet. Spent five hours waiting outside hoping it would improve, finally jumped in line with 6-7 other larger boats and surfed in. Two boats ahead of us took one through the windshield, hearing the Charter Capt yelling to the other boats was hair raising. Of course the following will get your attention also, not much scarier than hearing the USCG searching for people/bodies in the inlet as you're coming in, and you're watching the ebb tide roll as the sun goes down..... Hate being the bearer of bad news but like Mike has suggested "think about it good."

With WX like it has been this season in a 21' boat you could have only gone "safely" a few days." Even then days can start off real nice with a great forecast then go bad. Never forget a day back in the early 90s out of HI with bluebird skys light winds. Three hours later, 35 miles out it was blowing a gale without warning and the inlet was 13'. Had one break over the stern of a 42 Hatteras that day as we were trying to reel in flatlines and run for the inlet. Can still see those gold Penns shinning under water as she came over the stern and continued knee deep throught the doors into the salon. Took about all of 2 seconds to happen...:eek2:

If you are a weekend fisherman in a 21' boat you're either going to spend a lot of days standing on the dock cussing the WX man or you'll be living danergously. Once you go you will be hooked and be wishing for more boat. Save your cash and hold off till you can buy what you need. If you don't have to bucks, buy an older but larger boat, and go through it, building an offshore rig, knowing what you have. It's well worth the wait and will significantly reduce stress you experience will fishing offshore.

just my 2.5 cents worth....;-)

AMEN BROTHER!!!!!
YOU HIT THE NAIL SQUARE ON THE HEAD......PERFECTION.
ALL IN QUESTION......LISTEN TO THIS MAN......HE ALSO HAS BEEN THERE.:thumbup:
P.S. NOT BEING RUDE BUT THERE IS NO KEY TO KNOWING THE WEATHER, HELL THE WEATHERMAN GETS IT WRONG ALL THE TIME. WHY SHOULD WE THINK WE CAN GET IT RIGHT?
Mike-Red Eye
24 Topaz

[Tournament Cat]

Thanks for all the info guys. I think you're right that once I catch the offshore bug I will be wanting a bigger boat. I'm a very safety conscious guy who gets nervous very easily so I think I will save my cash and wait to get a 28' or 30' at a later date. I hear you about the weather because my bud has a 236 Sailfish and he has only been able to go out a few times this year because of the seas. Thanks again, Ken

[Regulator]

TC-
There are many seaworthy small offshore battle wagons out there; the two you listed are not in that category. You don't have to have a 29ft or bigger boat to fish offshore safely; what you need is sound seamanship; clear understanding of yours & your boat capabilities, all the safety gear (no scrimping here!). Do your homework on which brand boat & whether you want inboard VS outboard; right now is the best time to get a great deal on a used small offshore battle wagon, that is if you have cash; because not many lenders are lending money for $40K to $100K boats these days.

I have put 1200 hours on my 23 Regulator chasing pelagic fish out of IRI to HI and have had a blast doing it.

[jfish]

Regulator, is right they don't have to be 29' but every foot does help. It all comes down to the whole "Pitch Pole factor" the shorter the boat the increased chances on "Pitch Poling"

There are many factors to consider from trailering, power options, open stern closed stern, etc.. The most important thing is what you are already doing. Ask questions, take your time and weight all the options. I can't stress enough, once you go you will be hooked, and you will want more!!:thumbup:

Can't tell you the number of guys over the years (including myself) that have walked the same path you are on and consistantly they all get hooked. Many never return to inshore fishing...

The safety gear remark is vitally important.. SEE: VBMayCraft's post "Stranded in the Ocean" same forum..

Good Luck and you've made the right choice.

[Majunka]

Not to turn down the two boats you have mentioned but one other boat you may want to look at is a 21 - 23 ft parker cc. I own a 2007 21ft parker and it has proven to be better than my buddys 23 ft grady at times. These boats are just tanks when it comes to the water. I have been offshore and found myself in 2-3 ft seas and had it change to 5 to 6 ft and had no problems getting back. the parker has a 100 gallon gas tank which i can allows me to do a full day trolling and come back to the barn with at least a quarter tank left. Im not saying the boat is unsinkable or that i regurly go out in 5 to 6 ft seas but im just saying that this boat was one of the best i have ever owned.

[Will S]

I like fishing off-shore in a small boat and have had a lot of fun and a lot of butt whippings. Quality of the boat you buy is important; go Grady, Regulator, or Albemarle. If you have to buy used to match up the cost of a new Triumph you will still batter off and safer.

[jfish]

Team Bill Me's boat is not your average small CC by any means. Full stern, diesel, covered bow, That is a lot of boat packed into a small package. BIG difference!

Consider dry hull weight, when comparing, Fuel cell size, free board, SIZE OF Scuppers LOL:yes:.. There no question many fisherman have been brough back on bad days in 24 Albes. Another perfect example of not all boats are created the same.

About ten years ago a fishing buddy was in the same situation as many here. Had a 21' OB and wanted to get into Offshore fishing. He was smart and determined that he wanted a trailerable boat with a full transom, inboard, plenty of fuel cap., and full windshields. He ended up getting a fresh water boat out of the Great lakes (no rust) that has turned into an offshore battle wagon from hell. Not the fastest but without question a fishing machine. Plenty of room, full stern with the engine mounted mid ship and high sides. Thanks heavens they now allow boats over 8.6 as that has made towing it a little less stressful but his wait and search paid off. Sure he had to add an electronic package and has since purchased a new trailer and engine but he is still far below what a boat of that size and design would cost new. Heck he's sigificantly under what many folks are paying for new/newer 21' OB.. Just a thought..:rolleyes:

[FishinMagician_IV]

I haven't read what others above this post said but I had a 210 Coastal Wellcraft and it pounded like he!! in anything over 2 foot. It was a 1995 so maybe they are better now but just a warning. Good luck on whatever you decide on!

[Regulator]

If you are in a cc and stuff your bow and have a full transom, you may wish you didn't. No boat configuration is going to fit every situation. I have zero problem with the fact that my transom is a cutout. Not planning to back down on any fish, but have sent anglers to the front to run them down. In the 8 years I've own my boat only once did I take a wave over the stern and I don't think it would have made much of a difference if I were in a 26 Reg with full transom, the wave broke and would have been higher than the transom on the 26. The fact that it was cutout let the vast majority of the water just runout, which was good because we all know that Regs are not known for having the best scupper systems:eek2: There are many very capable fishing platforms out there and they all have one thing in common ... they cost a hell of a lot more than Triumph or Wellcraft or most of the boats in that length range and they hold their resale value or at least they did before the economy went south.:D

Equally as important to the boat is the captain; no boat is safe in the hands of inexperience or ignorance.

[carndog]

I have had both boats, and have taken each 35-40 miles out 2 foot seas maybe 3 and below perform well. the ride on the Triumph is much better than the wellcraft. Resale - hmmm take care of the boat the triump will hold up longer. I am guessing the fish package has the T-top (soft).

Wellcraft isn't what it used to be and triumph has come on strong.
For all you naasayers a 21 footer is fine, be equipped, watch the weather and fuel. carry tools and I always carry a prop. a little kicker isn't a bad idea also.

I wouldn't pay over 30K for the boat and that is negot.
Used your looking 20's
Also try the carolina Skiff they have a 26 footer same price range

[Jimmy H]

What about something like a world cat? The cat style hull sure does have a smooth ride. What is everyone's thoughts on that?

[SPalmer]

Regulator-

[I]There are many seaworthy small offshore battle wagons out there; the two you listed are not in that category[I]

I don't know about Wellcraft, but I own a Triumph 235cc. What about the Triumph don't you consider 'seaworthy'?

[Regulator]

Regulator-

[I]There are many seaworthy small offshore battle wagons out there; the two you listed are not in that category[I]

I don't know about Wellcraft, but I own a Triumph 235cc. What about the Triumph don't you consider 'seaworthy'?

I thought I said the "two you have listed" have a friend with the 21 Triumph and know his challenges getting offshore with it ... he is selling it to get a more suitable offshore boat if you know anyone interested.

I would expect that all boats that are manufactured and sold today are seaworthy, but does that mean they are suitable for offshore fishing. For me the boat needed to be trailerable (8.5 ft or less beam), 24 degree dead rise at the transom and minimum of 150 gallon fuel capacity (my boat has 184). Some else mention World Cat another very solid fishing platform, never fished a cat, but did have one pass me heading out to the offshore grounds into a tight head sea; he was enjoying drinking his morning coffee, while I was not. There are a lot of small offshore battle wagons out there, half the fun is finding the right platform for you and then outfitting it.

[SPalmer]

Just thought you might have had some specific experience with them. I find that even in the 235 it can be a rough ride in anything over 3' /10-15kts. I have ventured out to Jackspot on nice days, but I always pick the day carefully. I am actually looking to trade up to a 28' Albemarle Express Sport Fisherman.

[Hakuna Matata]

I have a 215cc and have replied to several threads with my likes and dislikes. Here are a couple threads...


http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/chesapeake-angler-original-board-maryland-angler/254146-whos-got-235-21-ft-triumph.html

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/virginia-angler/251631-taking-plunge-buying-maybe.html

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/virginia-angler/232575-2005-triumph-210cc-thoughts.html

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/chesapeake-angler-original-board-maryland-angler/203880-triumph-boats.html

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/chesapeake-angler-original-board-maryland-angler/196387-worlds-toughest-boat.html

http://www.tidalfish.com/forums/virginia-angler/257286-triumph-215-a-2.html

Long story short, I love my boat, but if I wanted an exclusively offshore platform I would go with a larger boat. I've fished mine offshore (30+ miles) a number of times but I can't do that with any type of regularity. I must go on the best of days.

If you have any specific questions feel free to shoot me a b-mail.

-JB

[c21478]

This reply is going to piss someone off. When I hear somebody say that they want to upgrade from their 24’ Pursuit with a single screw to something bigger so they can but out into the blue water, that’s a person I don’t want to have as a captain of the boat that I’m in. Always, always, always, you hear about how you need a bigger boat to fish blue water. Bull Crap. That’s a person who is tiring to make up for his lack of captaining skills. Of all the boats that are out there, I run a 2052 Trophy. 21’7” with an 8’6” beam and holds 65 gals of gas. I fished out of Wachapreague for years with this boat and have always made it back safe and sound. Let’s face it, Trophy isn’t the best boat around and 21’ isn’t very big. But it does get the job done. I would rather fish blue water in 6’ swells then the bay with a 2’ chop any day. Fishing blue water in a small boat is all about the weather. For the most part I could care less what the weather man says the wind is going to do. I look at the air temp trends. If it goes from 90 to 95 and then to 100, fish on. On the other hand if it goes from 100 to 90, forget it. The weather man gets the temps right more often than the wind. You pick the hottest day you can get and go for it. The downside is that hot days bring T-storms with them. I’m also rigged up with radar so that helps to an extent.

For all of those folks who disagree, next time you’re in Wachapreague just look at some of the pictures on the walls at both the Island House (the 13’6 Blue Marlin that weighed in at 770, 36 hours after being brought back to the dock because there wasn’t a scale big enough in town) and at Henry’s with the WM’S and BF’s. And if that’s not enough, rent out #2 West St. (or better yet, buy it since it’s one the market) and look at the walls there. All these pictures came from a 24’ or less.

26’ or bigger, bull crap. You just need to know what you’re doing. Just make sure you have the next day off from work because you will get beat to death with the air clutter when coming back in.

[mjr2]

Keep your eye out, I found a 06' 27ft Sea pro WA. with twin 200hp verado's with full radar/charter plotter for 28K. I have had it offshore and absolutely love it.

[Hakuna Matata]

This reply is going to piss someone off. When I hear somebody say that they want to upgrade from their 24’ Pursuit with a single screw to something bigger so they can but out into the blue water, that’s a person I don’t want to have as a captain of the boat that I’m in. Always, always, always, you hear about how you need a bigger boat to fish blue water. Bull Crap. That’s a person who is tiring to make up for his lack of captaining skills. Of all the boats that are out there, I run a 2052 Trophy. 21’7” with an 8’6” beam and holds 65 gals of gas. I fished out of Wachapreague for years with this boat and have always made it back safe and sound. Let’s face it, Trophy isn’t the best boat around and 21’ isn’t very big. But it does get the job done. I would rather fish blue water in 6’ swells then the bay with a 2’ chop any day. Fishing blue water in a small boat is all about the weather. For the most part I could care less what the weather man says the wind is going to do. I look at the air temp trends. If it goes from 90 to 95 and then to 100, fish on. On the other hand if it goes from 100 to 90, forget it. The weather man gets the temps right more often than the wind. You pick the hottest day you can get and go for it. The downside is that hot days bring T-storms with them. I’m also rigged up with radar so that helps to an extent.

For all of those folks who disagree, next time you’re in Wachapreague just look at some of the pictures on the walls at both the Island House (the 13’6 Blue Marlin that weighed in at 770, 36 hours after being brought back to the dock because there wasn’t a scale big enough in town) and at Henry’s with the WM’S and BF’s. And if that’s not enough, rent out #2 West St. (or better yet, buy it since it’s one the market) and look at the walls there. All these pictures came from a 24’ or less.

26’ or bigger, bull crap. You just need to know what you’re doing. Just make sure you have the next day off from work because you will get beat to death with the air clutter when coming back in.


Pretty much what I'm trying to say. I you have a smaller boat, you won't be able to get out as much.

-JB

[Tournament Cat]

Ok guys, I've been doing some research and getting educated for the last week now and have read all your replies. Im really liking the Parker 2520 pilot house model, question is will it be too hot in helm area being the boat will be in ocean city all summer? Will I be able to take it offshore for tuna ? I've also looked at a shamrock 2600 with pilot house but it is alot more expensive than the parker, Why? Are they good boats? All boats i'm looking at are 2006 and newer. The parker had an inboard diesel but not too fast on water! Thanks for the help