best towing vehicle

[Ronnie C.]

I am thinking of buying a new rig and plan on having it quite awhile with todays prices. Question I need a pickup for work and also tow my boat right now I have a 17 footer but want to upgrade to a 22 or 24 in the future will a midsize do this? Gas is going to kill me. Any input is helpful. I know its not a lot of info but now just looking at options. THANKS

[Sandtiger]

If I was towing anything in the 22 to 24 foot range (and I do) that will weigh in at around 6,500 to 7,500 pounds (and I do) with trailer, gas, passengers, and all the goodies, I would get nothing less than a 3/4 ton pickup with positraction rear end and a ratio no higher than a 3.73:1. The engine would be at least a 5.4 (Ford) or a 5.3 (Chevy). Get a heavy duty tow package so you have the extra cooling from the larger radiator, larger alternator, oil coolers (trans and power steering), heavy duty transmission with dash mounted transmission temperature gauge and such...........

Just my opinon........................ [wink]

[Batabbom]

Diesel. I have a F250 Superduty 6.0 diesel and it has no problem pulling my 25' Grady. I could probably pull my house of its foundation. Diesel is usually cheeper and better mileage than gas also.

[sleepydo]

get a two wheel drive nissan titan with factory tow package. best bang for $$.

factory tow package come with a different drive package.

[klramp]

DIESEL!!

F250 7.3 Ford Power Stroke

20 MPG Highway
17 MPG Mixed
16 Pulling 23ft Hydra-Sport

[Ronnie C.]

Thanks for all replies

[nicbuc]

Ronnie, Diesel is the way. I can hook you up with the right truck....a RAM 2500 Cummins 5.9, it will be the best truck you can buy...with the Employee Pricing and rebate you cannot loose...also I am a manager and not working on commision. I am located in Williamsburg and can be reached at 757-645-5196.
Putting a guy in one Friday a $42,370. truck for $34,000.
REMEMBER: the cummins is tried and true, Ford wants to sell the cummins but can't.....Dodge ownes it [grin]..Call me.

DAVE

[highland61]

nicbuc originally wrote:
Ford wants to sell the cummins but can't.....Dodge ownes it [grin]..Call me.

DAVE




Cummins is an okay engine.....too bad it comes in Dodge. Not worth the savings. ....[grin]
Can you show documentation where International motors, or any other diesel engine, are not tried and true?

I haven't seen where Ford (seemingly planning future success' with an upcoming 6.4 twin turbo PS International motor) wants to sell Cummins and for the life of me.....never found documentation that says Dodge owns Cummins. Cummins co-owns a bunch of India and Chinese stuff, but they do not openly admit to being owned by Dodge. Chrysler/Dodge do own Detroit Diesel (leak like crazy) and Electro-Motive Diesel (big squeeze bang engines that like stack fires), Maybe you mean partnership?
If I'm wrong, I openly apologize and please post the prospectus/data/links for verification.
Yes, I own a Ford PS 6.0 and it has treated me well. Speaking as a diesel mechanic I'd like to see a Caterpillar, now that would kick it up a notch.
Sorry, don't want to derail a post

[Sandtiger]

Better run the numbers on gas versus diesel before you commit to a purchase. First off, with a 22 to 24 foot boat there is no reason to get a diesel.

After running the numbers when I was looking, I found that initial cost difference between the two and normal maintenance will nullify the any fuel savings for a long time. I did a spreadsheet, and disregarding the maintenance, the difference in initial cost causes fuel savings to even out at about 200,000 miles (Note: most people don't drive the same vehicle for that many miles). Then you factor in maintenance and .............. well I bought gas as it wasn't cost effective.

For instance, I have a tow rating on my 3/4 ton pickup of 9,800 pounds and an oil change costs me 5 quarts of oil and a filter for a total of about $18 versus a friend who has a pickup with a diesel that uses about 16 quarts of oil and filters for an oil change for a total of about $40 to $45 for the required maintenance. That's a difference of $22 to $27 for a mileage interval that's about the same as a gas engine.

I think owning a diesel would be neat to have, but I'll use the extra money in my boat. Now if I were pulling a 5 ton backhoe around everyday, I'd definitely have one.

Please note I have stayed away from naming a specific name brand vehicle, but I will say it won't be a Dodge with their drive line problems they've had over the years.......... transmissions are not cheap to rebuild.

[highland61]

Sandtiger,

Very good points.....the current diesel truck offerings do not justify the cost of maintenance. Especially for short local runs towing anything less than around the 8-9K pound mark.
Those Cummins motors have been plagued by fuel delivery problems as well. We were using 6B's for power generation and we had control board, fuel delivery and idler bearing issues. Their KTA-50's would eat up liners. I had a brand new KTA-50 block explode with less than 50 hours on it.
Had less issues with Cat's and they don't require a boat load of special tools.

[Slipsinker]

If I was in the market for a new tow vehicle and it had to be a PU truck the Ford F-350 DRW with the Trailer Brake Controller would be my choice hands down.[grin]
http://www.lotpro.com/jpg/large/8555.jpg

[Batabbom]

On a gas engine you change the oil every 3000 miles. On a diesel its every 5000. Figure that into your Calculation. I have to admit I change my diesel every 3000 anyway. Makes me sleep better.

[Sandtiger]

Batabbom originally wrote:
On a gas engine you change the oil every 3000 miles. On a diesel its every 5000. Figure that into your Calculation. I have to admit I change my diesel every 3000 anyway. Makes me sleep better.

Calculations were done for every 3,000 miles on the oil change. My owner's manual for the gas engine also says every 5,000 miles, but I've always changed at every 3,000 and have done so for years. 5,000 mile oil changes are the recommended for both the diesel and gas (warranties are honored and such for up to 5,000 mile intervals) and since I change at 3,000 miles, my spreadsheet reflected that and used that mark for both engines as a fair comparison.

I used to be an aircraft mechanic in the Navy and my brother is an ASE certified A mechanic and we both agree on the 3,000 mile interval. So far using this criteria on past engines, it has gotten me good longevity with my engines. The reason I sold my last truck was due to parts and accessories going bad (A/C) and cost to upgrade was more then truck was worth (It was 13 years old). Engine had 189,000 miles and still going strong. So, I believe changing oil more frequently than the recommended 5,000 miles is cheap insurance.

[THOMAS70]

Diesel is the way togo. I have had a 96' Powerstroke, 00' Powerstroke, 04' Cummins, 05' Cummins(still have) and a 06' Cummins(just got). You can't beat them. The Powerstrokes were the 7.3's which were a better motor than the 6.0's. Diesel is the way togo in a heavy pickup. Someone mentioned Nissan I Don't Think So. Not a real truck.

[STEEPTEK25]

THOMAS70 originally wrote:
Diesel is the way togo. I have had a 96' Powerstroke, 00' Powerstroke, 04' Cummins, 05' Cummins(still have) and a 06' Cummins(just got). You can't beat them. The Powerstrokes were the 7.3's which were a better motor than the 6.0's. Diesel is the way togo in a heavy pickup. Someone mentioned Nissan I Don't Think So. Not a real truck.
Toyota power is the way to go not nissan...just hard to keep that puppy on the road w/all the power[tongue]

[Dae]

I gonna tell you right now, diesel prices are not lower. In the past they were but these days, it depends on the time of the year and location.

Where I live, diesel is usually cheaper then reg gas but if you buy diesel in parts of MD where they are NOT using reforulated gas, reg gas is cheaper. Also during the winter months, diesel is more expensive because gas usage drops but diesel usage sky rockets due to it because the same as #2 home heating fuel.

Now, I need to say a few things. Cummins is NOT, I repeat, NOT owned by Dodge. DC does own Mercedes diesels and I think Detroits but does NOT own Cummins. As for not being able to get a Cummins in a Ford; Wrong! You can get a Cummins in larger Ford trucks, I think starting with the F550 as an option.

The Cummins 5.9L ISB is a tried a true engine. It's been used and has held up in pickup usage for around 20 years. Even longer in other euipment like farm vehicles. The current diesels used by Ford and GM have not been in use for even half that time. Also The 5.9 ISB is rated as a medium duty motor but the 6L PSD and the Durmax are rated light duty diesels.

I must tell you I own a Dodge with the Cummins. I wanted a Ford F250 with the 6L PSD, but every one I test drove had problems (Surging, smoking, no power at take off. I have to assume most of the problems is due to International using Cat's HEUI injection). In fact, because I wanted the F250, I waited for over a year waiting for Ford to correct the problems. But because I kept reading about all the problems over at the diesel stop (Ford diesel forum), I deceided to test drive a Dodge, knowing the Cummins was a great motor. Well, it only took me one, yes one, test drive to sign on the dotted line for the Dodge.

I don't care what some say about the Dodge, but the truck is solid, and no worse then a Ford since body design seems to be a personal preference. I'd guess that if Ford and Dodge swapped bodies, without the public knowing, you'd still have Ford lovers saying the Dodge was junk.

Getting back to the point, to pull a 22 to 24 foot boat, you don't need a diesel. If you're looking for MPG, the diesel is the way to go, but remember you might endup paying for for diesel at the pump then you do for gas. Plus, most diesel pumps are dirty, so make sure you carry gloves with you.


Good luck with whatever you chose and take everyones opinions, including mine, with a grain of salt. Test drive everything before you make your decision then after you know what you want, test drive multiple vehicles of that make/model on the lot since every vehicle will run slightly different.

- Dae

[Dae]

Slipsinker originally wrote:
If I was in the market for a new tow vehicle and it had to be a PU truck the Ford F-350 DRW with the Trailer Brake Controller would be my choice hands down.[grin]
http://www.lotpro.com/jpg/large/8555.jpg


Nick,

I know this is off topic but did you know some electric/hydralic units will throw an error on Ford Controller? It has something to do with those magnets what are used and the controller not getting feedback from them. The Tekonsha Prodigy controller has the same problem, which makes me that Ford is using the Tekonsha.

BTW, the if Ford is using the Tekonsha Prodigy rebadged as theirs, it's was an excellevt move on there part since the Prodigy is highly reguarded by the RV crowd.

- Dae

[rrr]

I second that Batabbom, I have a 2006 F-250 6.0L diesel. I have 1470 miles and I am very happy. It is a great towing truck and I would recommend it to anyone.

[Chessie]

Ronnie -

At least there seems to be one point on which people agree here. That is, if you you really think you are going to be hauling around a 22' - 24' boat you will want a full size truck. Getting the boat moving isn't an issue really. It's stopping the boat, and keeping it safely behind you while you're underway that necessitate the bigger truck.

If you are just talking about pulling the boat around the block to the local ramp, you may be able get away with a mid-size truck. Also, if the 22' boat happens to be a flats boat or bass boat, a mid-size will likely be OK.

I pull a 23' Deep V center console and I wouldn't want to do it with anything other than a full size truck. I use a 3/4 Suburban and feel pretty good about it, but there are some days I wish I had more.

Good luck with your search.

[Bryansfish]

Forget diesal or gas I'd go with one of the new Hybrid cars and ford now has an SUV hybrid with 97hsp.

[stretchinline]

I've owned nothing but gas powered trucks my entire life, but last year I bought a F-250 w/ 6.0 psd, let me tell ya, I will never buy another gasoline powered truck again. I'm not being brand specific here just stating a fact. It's like night and day. Granted, my boats only 21'6', but with 105 gallons of gas and all the goodies for a day of fishing, I have to look in the rearview just to make sure the boat is still there. Nothing like pulling up to the stoplight and having a 'Japanese Hotrod' pull along side and when the light turns green all he sees is the brake lights on the trailer. So my vote is diesel, good gas mileage, loads of torque for pulling the boat, and plenty of power. At least give the diesel a look I really don't think you'll be disapointed. Tight Lines..................

[stretchinline]

FYI, almost forgot resale value on the diesel is a lot better also, just as an example the difference on my truck the 04 F-250 w/ 6.0 psd compared to the same truck with the 5.4 V8 is about $7,000.

[Trophy Hunter]

I have a lot of experiance with the Ford power stroke diesels. I work as a certafied Ford diesel mechanic. The 7.3L diesel (1995-2003) was great engine. It was easy to work on. It was very reliable. It has good low end torque. It is durable enough to be modified to make more HP if needed. The 6.0L (2003-to present) has loads of HP and torque. The 6.0L is a very unreliable piece of total junk. It is the most unreliable engine at ford I have ever worked on. This engine has more tsb's and ssm than any other engine ever at Ford. Problem areas include fuel injectors,EGR valves,EGR coolers,head gaskets,turbos, turbo exaust piping,wiring harness chaffe issues,oil coolers, and every one seems to leak oil also problems with the torque shift trans. The gas powered trucks are alot more reliable and for the most part are well built trucks. If you have a 6.0 sell it quick you will have trouble.

[homewrecker]

nicbuc originally wrote:
Ford wants to sell the cummins but can't.....Dodge ownes it [grin]..Call me.

DAVE




Cummins is an okay engine.....too bad it comes in Dodge. Not worth the savings. ....[grin]
Can you show documentation where International motors, or any other diesel engine, are not tried and true?

I haven't seen where Ford (seemingly planning future success' with an upcoming 6.4 twin turbo PS International motor) wants to sell Cummins and for the life of me.....never found documentation that says Dodge owns Cummins. Cummins co-owns a bunch of India and Chinese stuff, but they do not openly admit to being owned by Dodge. Chrysler/Dodge do own Detroit Diesel (leak like crazy) and Electro-Motive Diesel (big squeeze bang engines that like stack fires), Maybe you mean partnership?
If I'm wrong, I openly apologize and please post the prospectus/data/links for verification.
Yes, I own a Ford PS 6.0 and it has treated me well. Speaking as a diesel mechanic I'd like to see a Caterpillar, now that would kick it up a notch.
Sorry, don't want to derail a post

Just to set things straight in the early 90s ford bought 49% interest in Cummins but Chrysler still has the contract to put the Cummins in their trucks Chrysler doesnt own Cummins and secondly they do not own Detroit which is A General Motors Co. that the 60% controlling interest was bought by Roger Penske hence the Detroit series 60 engine.The diesel that Daimler Chrysler owns is called the MTU and the Duramax is actually an Isuzu diesel that has been used for years.And the Ford still uses the Navistar/International diesel engines

[David]

I use a f 350 w/the 6.0 Diesel for a 28 ft boat and have minor problems(broke a turbo exhaust clamp 6.00) and get 11 mpg while towing.Good luck.10,000.lb est. load weight.

[refish]

I am looking for an older 3/4 or 1 ton 4wd 7.3 powerstroke or dodge cummins pickup for sale to pull my boat with, prefer manual trans

[Alley Cat]

Fuel Cell is the way to go.

[B-Faithful]

I tow my 25'er with a chevy suburban. It has the 5.3l vortec engine and is 2wd with 3.73 rear and g80 locking differential. When not towing I get over 20mpg on the highway and have gotten ~12mpg towing my 25' Maycraft. If you chose nicer ramps, the locking differential works very well. I have yet to regret not getting 4wd. The 2wd are also rated to tow more and get much better mpg's

[Dae]

Just to set things straight in the early 90s ford bought 49% interest in Cummins but Chrysler still has the contract to put the Cummins in their trucks Chrysler doesnt own Cummins and secondly they do not own Detroit which is A General Motors Co. that the 60% controlling interest was bought by Roger Penske hence the Detroit series 60 engine.The diesel that Daimler Chrysler owns is called the MTU and the Duramax is actually an Isuzu diesel that has been used for years.And the Ford still uses the Navistar/International diesel engines

I don't know what the exact percentage of Cummins that Ford owned at one time, but currently and have not for years, owned any interest in Cummins. If you read the Cummins site FAQ, they specifically address this because so many people think Ford owns Cummins.

That's not to say Ford doesn't want Cummins in their trucks because the Cummins ISB 5.9 has been an upgrade option in a few of their larger trucks like the F550.

As for diesels in light duty pickups, the Cummins is KING. Yes you'll find people out there that till have their own opinions, but the general concensus when it comes these motors, Cummins is what most everyone wants. Most will say they want a Ford body with a Cummins motor and Allison tranny.

Me, I have a Dodge 2500 with the Cummins. When I originally went looking for a diesel pickup, I wanted a Ford F250 with the 6L PSD because the 7.3L PSD was reliable and I liked the Ford body. But after reading about all the problems on the '03-'04 6L PSDs I ended up with the Dodge.

If you're wondering, yes I did test drive a few Fords and everyone had one or multiple problems that were reported. And because I couldn't wait any longer for Ford to get these "issues" fixed, I went across the street to a Dodge dealer because I knew it had a Cummins. Up until the test drives with the Ford, I was dead set against Dodge because of all the auto tranny problems they had in the past.

To make a long story short. One test drive was all it took and I ordered a Dodge. I don't regret it for one moment and the updated 48RE auto tranny has been rock solid.

BTW, the price on the Dodge was higher then a comparable Ford at the time because with Ford, I would have gotten X-plan pricing. And when it's time to purchase another pickup, I'll be looking at Dodge with their new 6.7L Cummins and a new 6 speed auto tranny. No way will I look at the Ford with their new 6.4L twin tubro PSD. With the turbos, 2 EGR valves and all the other stuff under the hood, you can't even see the motor. I can't imagine what the cost will be if someone needs to ever work on it, once it's out of warranty. The dang cabs gotta be removed from the chassie for motor work.

If your wondering how much I'm pulling, I'm pulling 12-13K behind the Dodge.

- Dae