YP Chronicales 3 Susqy surprize

[Gerald]

Ya never know what your gonna catch in the Susqy. The last coupla days after the ice flow's everybody's been get'n snagged n hung up on an old dock lines or brush or something cause ya could feel it flex'n. So today Joe and I decide to drag the junk up outta everbody's way. It was messing up the whole peir and there there was something the pool area too.

After three throw's of an old wreck anchor we hook it and with the help of the whole gang we pulled it up.

Boy were we surprized.

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These were unmarked net and set right off the end of the pier 15-20 foot. Full of lost rig's, some with live fish still on the rigs. I saw one rig hanging inside that a fish hate and was hook and alive in the net. One of the nets had a lotta dead perch. We didn't look any father and just called the dnr. The officer came out and we show it to him and left.

[Timbo]

Hmmmm, something fishy going on up there with those nets I see.

[fish1]

Gerald, you'll made it easy for the netter here with lot's of perch pics, I hope you all get your rigs back.

I have a net on my duck blind site down here on rocky point and dnr has been monitering it, I believe he said netting was in season.

Bill

[c-hawk 25]

Netting opened up on the first i believe

[sweetwater slim]

I BELIEVE THAT IT IS A LEGAL TIME FOR COMMERCIAL NETS... I just thought it to be an odd placement choice.... This piece of river has good fish all along it... and this net was totally unmarked... STRANGE... ??? There were so many rigs hung on the line and nets it would have been a hazard for the waterman to harvest them... Prior to finding the net I had the pleasure of fishing with my son and his young family... particularly my granddaughter... Lea is almost 5 years old and caught several and a few nice ones too... For me this was the true highlight of the day ... seeing the smiling face of this little girl catching fish on a cold winter's day... PRICELESS ...

[johnrogers]

well hopefully the dnr takes care of it by tomorrow I will be down there late morning. Good fishing with you guys it was ashame seeing all the dead perch in the nets for sure. Well atleast we won't be getting snagged no more. And if anybody wants there rigs back talk to Joe he has a pocket full of them. LOL Last I saw though all the hooks were stuck to the liner of his pocket. Hopefully we won't have no more issues with them putting nets there again. cya tomorrow

[sweetwater slim]

Look at all the rigs...



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[sweetwater slim]

What bothers me is not only where it was put... but Why it was put there... The waterman may have an aggreement with Stanley and may have been fishing that spot for years... Maybe I am the intruder... But... NOT HAVING THE NET MARKED WAS DIRTY AND ILLEGAL ... If it had been marked we could have fished around it or beyond it or in front of it... I was trying to be optimistic thinking that it was normal river debris and did not think someone would put a net there... My optimism is fadding fast... Someone does not like the publicity that this area has been getting...

[Capt.Nick]

That's one of the down sides of posting where fish are.Now you know what happenned to all those perch that were there.

[Capt.Nick]

Wait til Ele & Mike gets a load of this post.

[Ele]

I had heard that eveyone seemed to be getting hung up on something and losing their rigs for the past couple of days. Now, we know why. Why is it everytime there is a good place for recs to fish for YP, the commercial guys seem to mess it up? It has happened before, years ago. Everytime the recs started to catch YP, the commercials filled the river with nets. Is it like they wait for the recs to find fish for them.

I wonder if this guy or guys had permission from the property owner, who charges the regs to fish there, to put their nets in front of his piers. I believe they have to have written permission to do so. Also, an unmarked net is illegal, if indeed, it was unmarked.

Ele

[toddstackle]

There is most likely 8 or 10 of those nets hooked together in a line, and they will be identified at the ends of the lines. I know that they are to be 100 foot from a dock.

[SteveL]

If the net was unmarked and was illegally set that close to the piers this is outrageous!

This is a comm fishery that is very hard to monitor for legal compliance and has the potential for gear conflicts between recs and comms.

Do the citizens of MD really value the importance of supplying wild caught MD perch to the markets in the midwestern states at the expense of rec yellow perch fishermen in MD?? Based on studies on other species its reasonable to suggest that recs spend 10 to 100 times more money per lb to catch these fish than comms sell them for.

[sweetwater slim]

yes Ele... It was not marked in any way .... We could have re-stocked the shelves in your shop with the amount of perch rigs on the net... I think it was an illegal net put there out of spite or stupidity ...

[Ele]

Slim, whether it was for spite or not, we may never know, but it was definitely stupid!

Ele

[c-hawk 25]

floats for the nets could have been further away.you only need two floats for the string of hoop nets.by the way it is illegal to mess with a comm. nets. would have been a different story if the dnr came and seen the net pulled up and fined the guys who pulled it.

[sweetwater slim]

There were no floats on the net... none. WE THOUGHT IT WAS RIVER TRASH CAUSING US PROBLEMS... WHEN WE SAW THAT IT WAS A NET WE CALLED DNR TO SORT IT OUT... WE DID NOT DAMAGE THE GEAR IN ANY WAY AND COULD HAVE EASILY RE-SET IT WITH VERY LITTLE TROUBLE... I have several friends who are commercial Water-men and they agree putting that net right there was STUPID...

[Fish nut]

Do you have the name of the DNR/NRP officer that responded. I would hope they followed up on this incident. What time and date did they arive to investigate? I will shoot them an e-mail and see if they are finished with there case report.

DNR is usualy good about setting the record straight. they will give us all of the information if the case report is closed and is no longer under investigation

[Gerald]

I heard they pulled 3 traps this morning.

[Capt.Nick]

floats for the nets could have been further away.you only need two floats for the string of hoop nets.by the way it is illegal to mess with a comm. nets. would have been a different story if the dnr came and seen the net pulled up and fined the guys who pulled it.
How do you know the guy who set the nets had a com. license?

[sweetwater slim]

Fish nut... I do not have the officer's name... He responded approx. 6 pm... on 01-09-10... I heard that more nets were pulled this morning... I am losing faith in the waterman's association quickly... Not just here but thru-out the bay ... dispite the fact that I have friends in the bussiness.

[sweetwater slim]

You're right Nick... I don't know Who set the net or if he is a licensed waterman or not.... There is alot about this that we don't know, at this time. It is easy to get emotional about things like this and make assumptions or statements prior to having all the facts... I will try to only state the facts as I recieve them.

[johnrogers]

I was down there this morning they pulled 3 nets and had another one tied of guess they didn't have room for it. No snags today and the fish were biting.

[Fish nut]

Fish nut... I do not have the officer's name... He responded approx. 6 pm... on 01-09-10... I heard that more nets were pulled this morning... I am losing faith in the waterman's association quickly... Not just here but thru-out the bay ... dispite the fact that I have friends in the bussiness.

I will send an e-mail and try to get specific details from the department in charge of overseeing these conflicts.
You guys should be commended for being good stewards of the resource. You took the time to go one step further and weren’t happy with letting the situation be. You contacted DNR and hopefully things will be followed up on for good or bad. It is still to be determined if illegal actions were being perpetrated hopefully DNR will inform us if this net is in violation.

[goose70]

Couple of things.

First, if this was an illegal net(s) (seems likely) and DNR is conducting an investigation, then I wouldn't have posted about it here. At least, I would not have posted at this early stage. Posting does nothing but help alert whoever the netter to avoid any DNR investigation.

Second, I know nothing of commercial netting rules, but why would the fact that it is set next tot a pier matter? The property owner does not own the water or the bottom, even under his/her pier. Unless the pier, as opposed to a boat, was used to deploy the net, then I don't understand why this is an issue (unless a reg has set up unique rules for nets, which maybe is the case?). Otherwise, the only issues seem to be whether it was legally marked and -- legal or not -- all the dead, wasted perch in it.

[Ele]

Jeff, I believe there is a rule, regulation or law that says a person setting a net has to ask permission from the land owner. (Maybe he got permission, I don't know.) I also believe if it is set in front of a pier, it must be so far away. Also, supposedly, the net was unmarked which is definitely a vuolation. And, in my opinion, he should be fined for stupidity.

Ele

[sweetwater slim]

I would think that the DNR would be all over this as the re-building of the YELLOW PERCH stocks is a feather in their cap... This may be the best case of management tactics actually working... We have more Yellow Perch now than I can ever remember and the regulations have only been in effect for a few years... I would like to hear a response from CCA, MSSA, and the watermans' association... THIS WILL BE A WORLD CLASS FISHERY SOON IF WE JUST DON'T SCREW IT UP...

[Gerald]

I fished for a little while this evening. Its cold out! Ice freeze'n in the guides real bad. There was prolly 4 boy's fish'n with there Dad's a few other guys. The net's still in front of the pool but its clear in front of the finger piers. They got the line tied off on the last finger pier and it runs up the outside of the pilings in front of the pool. Fish were running a little small today. I kept bout 5.

[Ele]

Herb and Mike fished the Northeast River this morning. Didin't catch much. Herb said he caught 1 largemouth and something else, I forget what. Herb took a ride over to Perryville this afternoon around 2 or 3:pm and said the ice was not a factor. He said there were about 15-20 guys fishing and everyone was catching fish. He didn't take his tackle with him because he thought the ice would be a problem.

Ele

[27 sailfish]

How hard would it be to require a SS tag to be placed on all fyke nets with owners name and license number ?

This way - in case ice or someone cuts loose the markers - or the net drifts away - the owner of the net can be identified ?

Why not place a note on the dock - kinda a lost/found type. This way - if the net is legal - the owner can claim it. Way I see it - someone should be looking for it soon.

If everyone obeys the rules to protect Yellow Perch that take 6-10 years to reach spawning size - there could be enough for everyone to go around.

If this net turns out to be illegal - hope DNR finds out who set it.

[Ele]

Skip, I don't think, at this point, there is any question as to whether it was legal or not. It was not marked so that is #1 violation. We will have to wait and see about #2, about putting it in front of a pier and #3, whether he had permission to put it there.

Ele

[Barefoot]

I would think that the DNR would be all over this as the re-building of the YELLOW PERCH stocks is a feather in their cap...This may be the best case of management tactics actually working

Not quite. It took a kick in the butt from the legislature before DNR took meaningful action...

It certainly shows what can happen if you reduce pressure on the population (just like the moratorium showed how rockfish can bounce back- granted, they were helped along with stocking)

[goose70]

Jeff, I believe there is a rule, regulation or law that says a person setting a net has to ask permission from the land owner. (Maybe he got permission, I don't know.) I also believe if it is set in front of a pier, it must be so far away. Also, supposedly, the net was unmarked which is definitely a vuolation. And, in my opinion, he should be fined for stupidity.

Ele

This may surprise some folks, since I'm not a big fan of commercial fishing, but if such a law exists than I am strongly opposed to it and may see what I can do to get a legislator to offer a change to it. Since when should a property owner have any special say over the water in front of his property?

This problem riles me up so much because it is pervasive in MD beyond the net issue. Too many property owners believe that they have some exclusivity that extends beyond the mean high water mark and into the water in front of their house. They usurp the public's water to protect their own property through hardened shoreline devices that cover and destroy the public shoreline habitat, while at the same time giving anglers grief if they cast under (or anywhere near) their pier, or threaten soft crabbers who walk along exposed beach at low tide. These nets pose a lot of legitimate problems, but in my view the failure to get any sort of permission from the dock/land owner should not be one of those problems.

[Gerald]

Goose,
I'm sure this property is taxed for being waterfront as well as the tenants. If the property got the correct permits to build and have access to the docks and open water, shouldn't he have a fair right of way to access? The net were 10-20 ft from the end of his dock, finger piers, jet shi lifts, pump out station on up the entire front of his property. There are several entrances to the docking areas and finger piers up along the property and the line of traps crossed them all.

[Ken Brice]

Jeff,

What if the water depth is 5 feet in front of your peir and they place tons of these nets everywhere.. Now you go and use your boat and
run over them, what do you think might happen???? If such a law exists than I am strongly in favor of it and may see what I can do to get a
legislator not change it.

[BLUEYZWAITN]

too bad DNR didn't place a camara out there somewhere to catch these guys checking their nets. It may have helped in finding them and getting the questions answered. It could be that the nettersdo have permission to place their nets off the pier BUT , UNMARKING IT AND LETTING EVERYONE LOOSE THIER RIGS SEEMS SORTA HOKIE.. AND PLACING RIGHT WHERE IT WAS SEEMS LIKE AN ACT OF IGNORANCE ...

I hate seeing these nets YP are my favorite ......

[goose70]

The access to the pier is something I did not think of, Ken and Gerald, and I agree that you raise a good point. While I don't care how much the property owner is taxed and disagree that the property owner should have a greater right to water access than any other citizen, as long as that right exists (as the MD courts have ruled, unfortunately), then I agree that a fishing method that prevents the owner's reasonable use of the pier should not be permitted. So, I would be ok with a rule that took into account how the fishing method restricts access (perhaps requiring a certain amount of MLW above the net).

[tunajim]

The net is illegal.. The set is illegal... no nets are allowed above the bay bridge except in the magothy.please call Greg Harris maryland natural resources POLICE.NO more PERCH Net's!!!

[C-Hawk18]

The net is illegal.. The set is illegal... no nets are allowed above the bay bridge except in the magothy.please call Greg Harris maryland natural resources POLICE.NO more PERCH Net's!!!

Jim,

I think you got that BACKWARDS....right from Comar... D. Fishing Areas. A person may fish for yellow perch for commercial purposes only in the following areas:

(1) Chesapeake Bay and its tidal tributaries, excluding the Magothy River, upstream of the William Preston Lane Jr. Memorial Bridge northern span; and

[Jerkbait-PA]

I am not familiar with the laws in Maryland. In Pennsylvania if a property is on a river or stream the land owner owns the land under the water to the middle of the waterway. Same for most lakes. They don’t own the water but they do own the land.

Navigable waterways are different. There are federal laws that have been up held in court many times. First rule is that if a waterway has ever been deemed navigable it is always navigable. Navigable waterways are considered navigable for their entire length regardless of manmade impedance such as dams. Since dams may some day be removed the navigable designation can’t be revoked above the dam. Navigable water can not be closed except for clear safety reasons like just above and below a dam. The public has a right to wade, boat, fish and even anchor in any navigable water.

The land owner may own the land so there may be laws requiring safe distance from a pier, bulkhead or maybe even navigable channel.

[goose70]

In MD, an owner of riparian tidal property owns only up to the mean high tide line. Any dock exists solely at the pleasure of the state and sits over the public's water. That means that you can pull your boat onto and walk along exposed beach at low or medium tide, cast your lure under a pier, and so forth.

My experience is that quite a few property owners are confused (or willfully ignorant) and attempt to assert non-existent rights over a zone around their property. As a practical matter, I've found that most of them will acquiesce -- or even turn downright friendly -- if you simply explain the law, agree to show respect (e.g. - retrieve all lures that get hooked onto their pier, don't fish their pier when they're having a quiet moment on it with their spouse, etc.), and limit the number of fish that you keep rather than slash and burning the entire ecosystem. If you take a friendly, educational approach, then many property owners seem surprised by all the life under their pier and around their shore, and become genuinely interest in what you're catching. This, in turn, can lead them to take more care in recognizing how their activities on shore impact the ecosystem around them.

So, I don't want to paint this issue as some terrible conflict between anglers and waterfront property owners. On the other hand, I don't want to see any rule geared towards nets lead to a slippery slope that provides these property owners with any more say over the public's water than any other citizen. The fact that they might pay more taxes to live there is irrelevant. You don't buy rights, and nobody forced them to purchase the property.

[c-hawk 25]

get your facts right tunajim

[moronehead]

That was pretty eloquent goose. And true.

[Scott McGuire]

This is an interesting issue, and not one that should be taken lightly.

Regardless of who owns the waterway, or the submerged land, the state has the responsibility of deconflicting uses. For example regulations/law state that: pound nets shouldn't be in navigational channels, aquaculture shouldn't be done near occupied duck blinds, and duck hunting shouldn't be done near occupied structures without permission. There are tons of laws and regulations written to provide direction over what uses take a priority. I don't know of any specific laws regarding hoop nets, but it's definitely worth looking into further.

However, that's not the issue at all. The issue is that an unscrupulous person placed at least one string of unmarked hoop nets where there was a known recreational fishery. It appears that the net was placed to directly impact the recreational activity. I wonder what this individual hoped to accomplish. I'm sure this isn't the only place to use hoop nets to catch yellow perch in the river, but it certainly is one of the few places that recreational anglers have access. Does this individual realize that he/she is directly impacting the economic impact of a new recreational fishery? How long will people fish somewhere when they know they're going to lose half their tackle? Does this individual realize that he/she is preventing kids from catching fish? I could go on, but I think you get the point. It seems like this net was set to start a pissing match. Not very smart.

[Ele]

Jeff, I agree with you.

Scott, I also think it was intentional, but what they hoped to gain is baffeling.

Ele

[goose70]

Scott, I'm pretty sure we're in agreement.

[bay prowler]

the watermen are from havre de grace and they are all legal with everything gents......sorry

[Ele]

the watermen are from havre de grace and they are all legal with everything gents......sorry

Bobby, by stating these watermen were all legal, you must believe that unmarked nets are legal, which they are not.

Ele

[Ele]

Zam, the WATERMEN were from Havre de Grace. Their net was not marked. The DNR was contacted. Please read the entire post.

Ele

[Offshore12]

I think Zam may be right - Remember those pictures of that net in the Bush River a few years ago loaded with yellow perch - that net was probably placed there by recs too.

[Ele]

Because, ZAM, it says right there in this thread. Again, read the thread..

Ele

[Offshore12]

Zam - I agree with you. I also agree that fkye nets foster productive spawning of yellow perch.

[Ele]

Zam, I believe what Bay Prowler said about the guys being from Havre de Grace, because I also Knew it before he said it. I know the nets were unmarked because I know the people who pulled them up. Also, if it was illegal to pull those nets, why were the pullers of the net NOT ticketed by the NRP police who were called.

Ele

[johnrogers]

If the dnr didn't think he/she was in violation they wouldn't have been so quick to pull it , don't ya think?? The nets have to be marked from what the dnr said and they were not. I was there

[Gerald]

Yo Zam you got my number if ya got questions.

[kidz]

Looks like someone is doing what they always do when it comes to recs and comms. Be glad when spring gets here.

[Ken Brice]

Ele, how do you know the waterman were from Havre de Grace?

I could get you the boat number if you want? I know where the boat is in HDG. My friend in the condo saw them setting it . Never been on your case before
ZAM, but wow, sometimes you really go over the top... My father work (FULL TIME) on the water for 30 years out of Rock Hall.. I do have respect for waterman,
but as I know FIRST hand, sometimes they do break the law.. Just like I do when I speed. I haven't met a perfect person yet, but than again I haven't met you..lol
There wasn't anything wrong with this thread.. Until you had to come on here and just stir it all up.. Just incredible..

[Ele]

Thank you, Ken. Very well said.

Ele

[hedjug]

ele, are you open this Friday & Saturday? I need some of those WP rigs...

[Ele]

hedjug, I will not be open until about the 1st of February. We are going on vacation Saturday afternoon to warmer territory. Why, may I ask do you need WP rigs when everybody is fishing for YP?

Ele

[hedjug]

becuase I am a rebel... and dsylexic. Have a good Vacation...

[marlinpenn]

I have to agree with Zam. I have said it before Ele is going to say what is good for business. She is so worried about the commercial guys with the YP fishing (because she makes money off the recs), but when they herring come in she has no problems with Mike (although it MAY be legal) catching all of the herring he can...... because they make money on that. Ele’s position has always been what is in the best interest of the shop. I have no problem with someone making a living, but if your gonna preach conservation, practice it.

[Ele]

marlinpenn, I am not preaching conservation. I have no problem with commercial fishermen. I do have a problem with them breaking the law. But, I guess you and ZAM think it is okay.

Ele

[kidz]

Ele, do not let these guys ruffle you. They only come on this site when they are bored. You have a good reputation from all the posts I have seen concerning your business. There are those who always like to make a big deal out of rec versus comms and will continue to do it because they think they can get others mad. Let the DNR handle this and continue to be the good person you are. Have never met you or been up to your area, but the YP posts have me thinking about it. Ilive in Pasadena and it is a long drive up there. I guess I'll have to wait for the spring. By now, after so many years, every one on this board knows who can get under your skin with their false accusations.

[sweetwater slim]

hedjug... I can show you how to tie the perch rigs in about a minute and show you everything else I know in about an additional minute... My p-mail is still not working so just show up at owen's and Gerald or myself will hook you up. We have been using Mike B.'s rigs but a simple dropper loop also works... just about any small plastic( BA'S, ZOOMS, ETC.) will work. good luck to you... just make sure your first bait is about 12" above your sinker...

[hedjug]

I have to agree with Zam. I have said it before Ele is going to say what is good for business. She is so worried about the commercial guys with the YP fishing (because she makes money off the recs), but when they herring come in she has no problems with Mike (although it MAY be legal) catching all of the herring he can...... because they make money on that. Ele’s position has always been what is in the best interest of the shop. I have no problem with someone making a living, but if your gonna preach conservation, practice it.

Everything I ever heard from Ele (and Mike) was talk about following the law & general concern for the fishery... Have they pushed for conservation, yes. Will some of the conservation hurt their own buisness-yes, will some of it help-yes.

One thing I did learn from them was the answer to the overfishing/pollution argument. We stopped netting the YP, now they are thick - all over the place... the water is the same.

[Ken Brice]

There is an ignore button for people that are closed minded and can't handle others opinions, use it.....I can't see how you can think what I posted was over the top anyway, All I did was shown that it could be many reasons why the net was there, it could of been legal..Even if it wasn't tagged (im not sure how they tag them) It could have came off for a number of reasons..vandlism, boat prop, pulling out of the water, just to name a few, to claim its illegal and blow off anyother posibility just shows how biased some of you are
read back some of the things I've posted, I never said it wasn't a watermans from Hav d grace, never said it was O.K. to set illegal nets. I never would make statements like that. I never tried to claim I know why the net was there, some of the others were, and I never started this thread, someone else did, if you start a thread and only want people to respond that agree with you. start your own private message board

Than why is it that "You the oh mighty ZAM" is the one that needs to point out things that, in this case are NOT THE TRUTH.. If you know anything about traps/pots they don't just come off. If you knew anything about Perryville and the water we are talking about than you might would know, we have no boat traffic. (I cross that river everyday) The person I talked to (a friend) watched the guy put the pots right where they were, they live in the condo's. Biased.. OMG.. Ya that's me. Biased for what reason? I haven't even fished for YP's. I just don't type on a computer to see my self type. Maybe you should take your own advice and hit the ignore button, if you don't like what you see instead of giving us hundreds of lame excuses of what might have caused a net to be set right next to the dock, unmarked. Guess we need more people, that just want to discuss, why the sky is blue...

[troutabout]

You think maybe the ice cut the float off? Also looking through comar I can't find where it says a hoop net needs a marker, if you can please show it.

[marlinpenn]

So who is to say some local tackle shop vs a local rec put the nets there to make money on selling YP rigs?

[C-Hawk18]

. If you know anything about traps/pots they don't just come off. .

Ken - Please tell me exactly (since you apparently know all) how Fyke nets are "marked". 'Cause it only needs to be with the licensee's number, which could have been on a tag, with easily could have been removed by any one of those who "illegally" pulled the waterman's net from the water.


If you knew anything about Perryville and the water we are talking about than you might would know, we have no boat traffic. (I cross that river everyday) .


Please see below.....apparenty others.....who are "in the know" are using BOATS in that area.

Bill, yesterday and today Mike and Herb have been fishing. But they are now fishing in a boat. Seems like it is a little better as the fish have moved deeper. They do tend to move around as the water gets warmer or colder. They could be catching them off the pier again tomorrow.

Ele



I fished today and caught 20 in an hour, the fish have moved deep so bring a long rod and heavier weights to get out there. I been using the 2" storm minnows black and white with great results today was slow though. key is getting out there deep. If you have a boat use it you'll catch alot more.

[Ele]

Marlinpenn, what is your problem? This is the second time, once on another thread that you have talked against me. For what reason, I have no idea. As far as I know, I do not know you.

Ele

[Ken Brice]

Ken - Please tell me exactly (since you apparently know all) how Fyke nets are "marked". 'Cause it only needs to be with the licensee's number, which could have been on a tag, with easily could have been removed by any one of those who "illegally" pulled the waterman's net from the water.




Please see below.....apparenty others.....who are "in the know" are using BOATS in that area.

How many people were on the water the last 2 weeks??? Come on big guy, answer that?? This was last saturday..

[C-Hawk18]

How many people were on the water the last 2 weeks??? Come on big guy, answer that?? This was last saturday..

Nice Try! Please answer my question first....with an answer and not a question


Ken - Please tell me exactly (since you apparently know all) how Fyke nets are "marked".

[C-Hawk18]

Has anyone got an official report of the incident from DNR?

You can bet if a commercial waterman is charged with something, the report will be found by someone on here.....if no charges then (more then likely) nothing will get posted

[Ele]

Has anyone got an official report of the incident from DNR?

Sounds like a good job for you ZAM.

Just to clear something up. Mike & Herb just started fishing out of a boat yesterday, since all the cold weather moved in.

[kidz]

Mission accomplished for the instigators who always stick together. These guys are famous for he said ,she said, and then come off like they said something else. Ingnore them and they will either go away or make a bigger #ss of themselves. It the truth, look at previous threads posted by them. I am only responding because I have been reading tidal fish for years and know that some post pictures of their catch, but do not like to either give out info or be helpful to others. But they will always express their dislike for those who are in the area they fish as being in their area. Tidal Fish is an excellent forum for those that share and continually offer help to others. Then there are those who use this forum to instigate and call out others to make points that are unneccessary. Come on good weather for outside work or fishing.

[hedjug]

hedjug... I can show you how to tie the perch rigs in about a minute and show you everything else I know in about an additional minute... My p-mail is still not working so just show up at owen's and Gerald or myself will hook you up. We have been using Mike B.'s rigs but a simple dropper loop also works... just about any small plastic( BA'S, ZOOMS, ETC.) will work. good luck to you... just make sure your first bait is about 12" above your sinker...

thanks slim... some of us (Upper elk river rats) will be out this weekend at the dam & may end up perchin for a bit... who knows? I will be the big dude in a red jacket with a chicken on it...

I can tie the dropper loops setups, but Mikes rigs just "stand" up right.

[Ele]

You can bet if a commercial waterman is charged with something, the report will be found by someone on here.....if no charges then (more then likely) nothing will get posted

C-Hawk 18. How can the owner of unmarked nets be charged if his net is unmarked? Do you really think he is going to go to the NRP and say, "Hey, they are my nets." Of course, the nets are probably worth a lot more than the fine would be, but somehow, I just don't think he will claim them.

Ele

[Ele]

ZAM, I have no knowledge as to whether the nets were claimed or not. Would you claim them, if they were yours?

Be sure to tell everyone on the pier who you are. I am sure everyone will welcome you with open arms. Sorry I won't be there but I am leaving Saturday for a much needed vacation, especially after all the criticism I have received from you and marlinpenn.

Ele

[JERRY NORRIS]

Boy, talk about a post gone to pot, I hope to be up there tomorrow fishing and anyone is welcome to join me but please leave the arguments at home and just enjoy the fishing!

[kidz]

Who didn't see that coming from zam. Every time someone present their opinion or defends the original content of the post, he gets to where he getsconfrontational. It's a shame zam you didn't start fishing there first, so you would lose all your rigs and then find the unmarked net. Wonder what you would have done?

[johnrogers]

Boy, talk about a post gone to pot, I hope to be up there tomorrow fishing and anyone is welcome to join me but please leave the arguments at home and just enjoy the fishing!


Amen to that, I might be down there sometime during the day.

[ctb]

ZAM, you know, I have a lot of respect for you as a fisherman. I see you all the time in my travels on the upper bay. But, this is a recreational fishing site. I understand your desire to present the other side of the argument. The fact is, there were posts here from recs that were having luck at that pier. Commercials fish all over the lower river this time of year. Don't you think they could have left the pier area alone so folks could enjoy the fishing with their kids?

[johnrogers]

I think Zam thinks to much. LOL Everyone has a right to there opinion. Winter is here for sure you can tell from this post. Lets hope there biting tomorrow

[Fish nut]

Gang. I have contacted DNR & the officer involved. These are the fact as of this moment. The nets are currently removed and not fishing. The case report is still open. No specific information can be give until the investigation is completed. Legal issues have to be sorted out. No official release has been made as of 1-15-09 8:15AM.

Have a good weekend fishing tight lines.

[flats cat]

Thanks for the update Fish nut.

[BILL H]

Gang. I have contacted DNR & the officer involved. These are the fact as of this moment. The nets are currently removed and not fishing. The case report is still open. No specific information can be give until the investigation is completed. Legal issues have to be sorted out. No official release has been made as of 1-15-09 8:15AM.

Have a good weekend fishing tight lines.

Again, someone had to pour a cold bucket of reality on a ridiculously heated discussion and spoil the fun! I appreciate the attempt at sanity!

[goose70]

I hope you guys are proud now that you removed all of that great Yellow Perch spawning habitat.

[Ele]

Jeff, don't worry, there are still plenty of "net habitat" out there. I heard some of the habitat owners were actually out there marking them.

Ele

[sweetwater slim]

I have not been over there much this week but I heard that the nets were back and still not marked... WTF???? THIS THING IS GONNA GET REAL STUPID BEFORE ITS OVER... All I want to do is fish.

[Ele]

Slim, I heard the same thing. It sure is a shame, if it is true, that a few guys can mess things up for many others.

Ele

[Fish nut]

If a snag has developed in the same location I would suggest trying to remove the debris.
If something is found out of the ordinary Call DNR and let them sort it out. Request an explanation and a course of action for the incident. Polity ask for the officers name and ask for a action / case number to reference in the future.

[Brandon]

I am sitting here watching the ocean and wind blow thinking of the rooster fish that got saved today from my fly rod and reading this thread:eek2:
Zam, as you know this is a recreational fishing site, period, end of story. You should expect to read views that come from recreational anglers. I am not saying recreational anglers should be against watermen or any other group at all, however we are recreational anglers first and foremost. I think you may have jumped into this thread with out knowing some of the facts yourself and to "just present another side" for the sake of doing it really does not help a thing. The net was unmarked, that is illegal, that alone is plenty to talk about. Yellow Perch is a sensitive topic as you know and when it comes to nets that is even more of a hot topic with recreational anglers. While you criticize others for always presenting a rec attitude, one could say the same for you that you are always jumping in and for the sake of doing it presenting a commercial side, that will wear on people, so I would probably expect to get some push back if I were you.

As for commenting on Ele and Mike. I have never heard either of them be anti-commercial watermen, it's been mentioned that Mike does some commercial fishing, so to say he or Ele are against commercial watermen is a little crazy in all my years knowing both of them, and that goes back probably over ten years time frame. Sure Ele and Mike are going to do what is best for their business, with in the law. I think any business owner does that, so it should not be surprising to anyone. The issue in this thread is not about anti watermen, its about illegal activity. I have heard Mike and Ele over the years talk about illegal activity from both recs and commericals so to say they pick one or the other in my experience has not been the case.

If there was an unmarked net in the area that makes it illegal i think both recs and commercial anglers would and should be upset about it since it hurts the resource overall of which belongs to all of us.

[kid chris]

Hey, the last few days people fishing off the dock at owens seem to keep getting snagged in the same depth and feet out from the dock, the whole length of the dock. Sweetwater slim had mentioned that he thinks the nets are back and im pretty sure he is right. We need DNR to go back down there and drag it out. There probably selling all the rigs there catching in their net and making a nice profit.

[Timbo]

Yea I lost a rig there today too. Definately a bad snag.

[Brandon]

Zam

The problem is that your rationale is only rational as you think about it:
1) You started it in this thread with criticizing Ele reporting on the incident. Had you never commented in a critical manner you would never have received feedback to be criticized.
2) The net was unmarked, that is illegal, period, end of story.
3) You state the because the net is back means it is legal. Sorry, it's not a if A then B statement.

Brandon

[JERRY NORRIS]

I talked to an NRP officer today. He said the net was unmarked and was confiscated. So that ends your argument of the net being legal. As for a net being back, he said that they did not get the anchor and some of the rope out. Based upon my observations today, I would say that is accurate, I hung whatever it was several times . I am pretty sure it was a hard nylon rope like was on the net. I lost several rigs on it , but also had the lures pop off of it. If it was a net they would have hung in the mesh and not popped off. Ele and Mike have had a big part in what has led to a recovery of the yellow perch fishing. Increased numbers of fish has benefited the commercials just as much as it has the recreational anglers. By the way, it was a beautiful day on the river and the fish cooperated. I have a nice dinner waiting to be cleaned.

[kidz]

Zam, I like your post on 1/13/2010 at 4:34. That post tells alot and I was glad that Jerry posted his info.

[mbrage97]

What are you talking about. As someone that has been fishing every late winter and early spring for YP's for the last 30 years, I can say with 100% certainty that I have caught more YP's in general and more KEEPER YP's in the last two years than the ten previous combined. Allocation, ok, maybe for the larger fish but not the total count, unless the commies were keeping undersized fish. I haunt the Eastern and Western shore fishing from Jan to late March seeking them out at more spots than most have heard of and I have caught more in total legal and SUB LEGAL recently. Alledgedly, nets were configured to snare mostly keeper fish, but I am seeing more of both. I attribute additional keepers to restricted netting windows. The fact that more spawning fish can actually procreate due to the reduced comm. netting time has increased the fishery for everyone. Up until a few years ago, it was rare to bring home 5 fish that were 9 inches unless you were lucky enough to hit the one or two days when the major push coincided with the time I happened to be standing on the shoreline. I would not keep legal fish in those days in hope that they would make it through another year to spawn again. I have no reservation bringing home my ten now so that I can enjoy the bounty that so many like Ele and Gerald and countless others lobbied for. This is truly a success story for everyone. Every fish that makes it upstream to drop her 3000 eggs means that we all will have more to bring home in a few years.

[mbrage97]

You just contradicted your earlier post. Are there more YP's or not? You stated it was re-allocation of the biomass at 8:41. Personally, I drop the roe and or sperm back into the stream on ALL fish I keep. Maybe it has an effect maybe not. If I am the only rec in the Chesapeake watershed that practices personal preservation than it probably has little or no effect. But, I would bet I am not the only one. I would be willing to bet that there are fish alive today thanks to my conservation efforts. I will also blame YP's for decreasing the proliferation of their own numbers. Cannibalism......You forgot to blame them. Of the 30 I have brought home in the last three weeks, about 20% of them had juvenile YP's in their gullet.

[Ele]

ZAM, FYI, Mike went fishing, yesterday morning and in about 2 hours, had caught about 35 YP. Most of them were legal. He was fishing in an area in the Northeast River that was a historial place to catch YP. For the past 25 or 30 years, it was impossible to catch YP in this area, but because of the recovery of the YP they are starting to spread out into these other areas. Mike was fishing through the Ice. I have not mentioned exactly where he was fishing because there is no access to this area now as it is all private property.

Up until about 2 or 3 years ago, it was almost impossible to catch a legal YP because the smaller fish were the only size fish that would pass through the fyke nets. About 4 years ago, Mike counted 165 fyke nets in an area which was about 2 miles long in the Northeast River.

You mentioned that recs are allowed to catch YP during the spawn but commercials are not. March 10 is the closing day of the commercial season. I would say that most YP have spawned by then. Besides, what is the difference if they are caught on their way up the rivers to spawn or while they are actually spawning?

I have heard it many many times, how the watermen say their nets are a great spawning habitat for the YP. If you believe that one, I understand how you think the YP fishing was as good 3, 4, or 5 years ago, as it is now.

If you had attended all the YP work group sessions, you would have heard that the depletion of YP was not because of overfishing, but because of pollution, impervious surfaces, etc. It sure is funny by putting a few restrictions on the netters, all that has improved.

Ele

[hedjug]

Im not sure if theres actually more Yellow perch or not, its impossible to really know unless your able to count every fish. theres probally more fish, but allocation is the biggest reason Recs are catching more, another big reason Recs are catching more is because of the increased reports, Like I said many times during the YP debates, if people went out and targeted YP they would see how plentiful they are, even back then I remember Gerald, Ele and others admitt there were a lot of small YP, they complained mostly about it being difficult to obtain a limit..also, Most of the reports of lots of YP is coming from the Susquehanna, I haven't heard any reports of good catches anywhere else. I've been fishing in the upperbay area for over 40 years (most of my life) And I don't see a difference at all in the areas I fish. But I've never really had a problem catching them

zam zam zam... you just set yourself up for this stuff. All year you go on about ow the striper fishery is fine because you are catching plenty in your own specific areas... you want us to take that as positive indication of how well the population is doing... even though fisherman from up & down the coast are reporting lower numbers, you want your numbers to be the ones people use.

Now, people are telling you that they are catching YP ALL OVER the place in great numbers, you try to say that's not an indication of the population???????

[DirtyFrank]

Ele, enjoy your vacation. Be sure to come back with some nice fishing pictures. See you in a few weeks.

[c-hawk 25]

does it matter that comm. have to tag there fish and records are kept on how much is caught. recs have no restrictions like this so i guess we will never know how many they catch.once again it is a comm. verse rec. pissing match.

[Ken Brice]

Im not sure if theres actually more Yellow perch or not, its impossible to really know unless your able to count every fish. theres probally more fish, but allocation is the biggest reason Recs are catching more, another big reason Recs are catching more is because of the increased reports, Like I said many times during the YP debates, if people went out and targeted YP they would see how plentiful they are, even back then I remember Gerald, Ele and others admitt there were a lot of small YP, they complained mostly about it being difficult to obtain a limit..also, Most of the reports of lots of YP is coming from the Susquehanna, I haven't heard any reports of good catches anywhere else. I've been fishing in the upperbay area for over 40 years (most of my life) And I don't see a difference at all in the areas I fish. But I've never really had a problem catching them

Not really SURE??? Wow can we get a AMEN from the choir:thumbup: Do you know how long it is from the Condos to the water in perryville?? 150 feet. So when someone tells you they saw the people setting the nets there, it's not like it happened in the middle of the bay, so you don't really know truth from fact, This is fact..

Don't forget the MWA conferance in OC this month. :cool2:

[Ken Brice]

does it matter that comm. have to tag there fish and records are kept on how much is caught. recs have no restrictions like this so i guess we will never know how many they catch.once again it is a comm. verse rec. pissing match.

Maybe you should take some of your comm money and pay to be a member here on this site and your voice might be heard.

[Ele]

does it matter that comm. have to tag there fish and records are kept on how much is caught. recs have no restrictions like this so i guess we will never know how many they catch.once again it is a comm. verse rec. pissing match.

Let me see now. From the beginning of time, the commercials could use all the gear they wanted. They could fish wherever they wanted. They could catch as many fish as they wanted and could sell all they wanted. From about 40 years ago, until two years ago, there wasn't much to count on the recreational end. When the YP commercial industry collapsed, in the mid-west, our fishery started to collapse. Coincidence? I don't think so.

Until two years ago, the rec limit was 5 fish over 9". If you had a great day, you might have caught a limit of 5, but that was only if 3 or 4 guys pooled their fish.

Oh, yes, the commercials had to report their catch. True. But, did they truly report it? Again, I don't think so. Now, that they have to tag their fish and are accountable for their tags, which somewhat makes them accountable for what they catch, they don't like it.

I have fished commercially hook and line and have tagged fish. Believe me, it is not hard to do. It takes a second or two. The only reason the commercials do not like to tag their fish is because it makes them accountable for what they catch.

Ele

[mbrage97]

Well, I am glad you are done talking about YP's, because while slightly interesting at first the bantor has degraded to the usual crap, and you are wrong . I will stand by my 30 years experience of studying, adapting, and catching the Ringed Perch. As I have travelled to numerous spots in about 10 river systems in the upper bay year after year since the late 1970's, I have seen the fishery go from robust to almost non-existent to recently recovering. I am not talking about the Susque, but EVERYWHERE I fish for them. You can't say those observations are incorrect because you were not there. The fishery has increased in total quantity available no matter how the harvest is allocated.

[c-hawk 25]

hey ken i cant pay to be a supporter on this site. was a real bad year for the comm. people like always. i dont want to be heard by people like you and ele who know everything that goes on. i know the true story as to why this started but you people on here it is a guessing game pinning one against the other.

[Gerald]

David,
Bet ya a case of beer I can kick your ass jerk'n perch.

[Baldzilla 2.0]

.once again it is a comm. verse rec. pissing match.

Seems to be a Zam vs Rec pissing match to me...let the thread die, if noone else responds, it will go away and this BS can disappear to the bowels of TF

[Ken Brice]

hey ken i cant pay to be a supporter on this site. was a real bad year for the comm. people like always. i don't want to be heard by people like you and ele who know everything that goes on. i know the true story as to why this started but you people on here it is a guessing game pinning one against the other.

C-hawk,. If you are a comm, I bet it's the PART TIME version.. You we used to call them half-ass waterman.. They worked the summer as a crabber and would buy the MWA plates and everything. Remember I grew up on the water as a waterman's son, i loved it. Just knew I couldn't make a living out of it. Especially when we had teachers and such buy nice boats, because they had a real job, but doing the part-time things as something to do in the summer. We we didn't have a choice and we also were out there in the cold while the so called
part-time waterman were on land. Back in the day, when someone was waterman, that's ALL THEY DID.