promised update on whaling incident

[green apple]

Spoke to my daughter today about how incident affected whaling stoppage.She has been on phone with her main person in Italy and Hank in australia. She said it was good and bad. These boats actually only make it harder for groups trying to stop whaling thru negotiating harder, the bad, good is this boat no longer exist. You should know the whaling industry is subsidized by the japan government, not a money maker at all just a way of life being totally suported. thus if you know world economics , japan is in rough shape so they are looking for a way to cut back and this is one way the government could cut the funding. My daughters group is in the process of finding funding to higher the few boats that whale, to police only, not whale in the antartic region since they know the industry and have the right type of boats for those waters. They did the same for the dominican republic, where she ran a conference last year. She currently has 6 whaing conferences sechuled this year around the world. Progress was being in japan made and was very close to being resolved before this incident. In that part of the world honor is very important she tells me , so all answers to stopping whaling in japan would have to address this, ecnomic reason was the excuse they had convinced to use,as well as the plan to give these workers something to do [honor part] . Please remember in your discussions what some people have done as living for generations now cannot because of many reasons....one of which maybe of you, or to many of us.

[Jerkbait-PA]

Only problem is you can’t sell a show staring people negotiating. If you’re not going Jerry Springer you’re not going to get on television! I have to admit I’d be more interested in seeing some egotistical madman crash his ship into another. Now that’s quality television.

[LY2000]

There is no "honor" in using a loophole to harvest for meat while pretending to conduct science. Are you saying the latest collision has caused Japan to continue whaling in spite of money being lost?

[goose70]

There is no "honor" in using a loophole to harvest for meat while pretending to conduct science. Are you saying the latest collision has caused Japan to continue whaling in spite of money being lost?

I think what he's saying is that honor is an important perception of many Japanese, and if the international community is going to get the Japanese to volunarily stop whaling, then it must be prepared to acknowledge and find a way to resolve the perception of lost honor. If that is what his daughter is doing, then she sounds like someone who is doing honorable work on many levels. Hopefully this work can serve as a springboard to resolving the even more serious, but less dramatized, overfishing of th world's oceans.

[shiloh]

Goose 70 is right in his well written post. The idiocy of the Sea Shephard tactics only makes it more difficult to resolve this problem. If the harvest is not economically feasible there surely the japanese will find an "honorable" way out of the situation. Perhaps fish farming subsidized by the government.

[Popster]

I loosely translated the post to mean that whaling is a way of life to these fishermen and the Japanese government is subsidizing there effort. A satisfactory "transition" to other types of livelyhoods is needed to protect the fishermen's sense of identity.

[C-Hawk18]

Shiloh - The Sea Shepard crew knows their tactics are radical and outrageous but wouldn't Japanese whaling continue, business as usual without them? I think so and that's why I take a more holistic view of their actions and recognize that this may be the only way to effect change. Protest, particularly violent protest, is always met with disdain and particularly by conservative thinkers... but it has proven to be effective - time and time again - when it appears to those who believe strongly in a cause that there are no other options. http://www.theamericanrevolution.org/hevents/bteapart.asp Jim

Jim,

Now let's replace the words "Sea Shepard" and "Whaling" with "PETA" and "Rock Fishing". I'm guessing your viewpoint changes? If it does....why?

[BoomTown]

Jim,

Now let's replace the words "Sea Shepard" and "Whaling" with "PETA" and "Rock Fishing". I'm guessing your viewpoint changes? If it does....why?

Are you kidding me. That isnt even in the same plane. Whales are mamales, endangered, have brains as complex and bigger than ours, etc. etc. If you want to make an analogy chose a better one. I doubt if anyone likes PETA here or their methods and I wouldnt choose Sea Shepard as my vehicle for change. However, if Sea Shepard brings mass public attention to a practice that really needs to be stopped than I am ok with that.

[C-Hawk18]

Are you kidding me. That isnt even in the same plane.

No Kidding...let's ANALYZE

Rockfishing and Whaling (what the Japanese ship was engaged in) - both LEGAL activities under present law...Correct? Sea Shepard and PETA both EXTREMIST GROUPS willing to break the LAW to get media attention to try and change the Laws.....

Not the "same plane"?

If you fish or hunt, and don't think so, you better practice your golf swing.

[C-Hawk18]

However, if Sea Shepard brings mass public attention to a practice that really needs to be stopped than I am ok with that.

So if they "do it" (break the law), for a "cause" that you so happen to agree with, then it's OK?

Think what you are saying.......think about all those who love "SEA KITTENS"........you're playing right into their hand

[flats cat]

FYI,

Whaling is illegal under international law. The Japs say the whales they harvest are for research purposes only.
Fishing for Striped Bass is legal under Maryland law. They say the whale meat isn't very good to eat anyway?
If we let them they are going to wipe out the Blue Fin tuna before too long...
I think we should be more concerned about the tuna then the whales at this point.

[LY2000]

Sham commercial whaling (poaching) has almost nothing in common with legal recreational fishing besides both take place on the water. I feel no threat to my hobby when the paper puts out an article about oyster poachers. I think the public at large sees it the same way. Let's not get too paranoid.

[C-Hawk18]

FYI,

Whaling is illegal under international law. The Japs say the whales they harvest are for research purposes only.
Fishing for Striped Bass is legal under Maryland law. They say the whale meat isn't very good to eat anyway?
If we let them they are going to wipe out the Blue Fin tuna before too long...
I think we should be more concerned about the tuna then the whales at this point.

FYI - that's why I said......
Whaling (what the Japanese ship was engaged in) .

Meaning whatever you want to call it, the activity that they were REPORTEDLY engaged in is LEGAL. Please correct me if I'm wrong

So - Is the BFT fishing they are doing right now ILLEGAL? If it is then would the Sea Shepard be "RIGHT" to engage the Tuna boats in the same manner?

[C-Hawk18]

Sham commercial whaling (poaching) has almost nothing in common with legal recreational fishing besides both take place on the water.

If the Gov't doesn't see the "SHAM", and deems their activity as LEGAL, then how is it any different.......


I guess, just like everyone else, just because you agree (or disagree)?

[Jonah]

http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/251888/

[LY2000]

[QUOTE=C-Hawk18;1525929]If the Gov't doesn't see the "SHAM", and deems their activity as LEGAL, then how is it any different.......


It is different it too many ways to list really. It's like purposely going 10 miles past the 3 mile limit for blues and catching nothing but stripers intentionally. Illegal, but easy to beat in court. Why do you care about what the japanese govt calls it?

[AngleJP]

When are we going to apply the same reasoning to the factory ships leaving Reedville, Va. to rape the menhaden and foul the bay??

[goinsfishin]

When are we going to apply the same reasoning to the factory ships leaving Reedville, Va. to rape the menhaden and foul the bay??

We can't apply the same reasoning because the reduction fishery is LEGAL under VA and Federal Law.
The way to shut down the Menhaden reduction fishery is to work to change the existing law (as has been done in most states), NOT to harrass persons engaged in a LEGAL activity.
The Japanese whaling is conducted LEGALLY thru a loophole in international law, that DOES NOT give Sea Shepard, PETA or anyone else the "right" to contest it by dangerous harrassment.

Two wrongs doesn't make a right.

[C-Hawk18]

[QUOTE=C-Hawk18;1525929]If the Gov't doesn't see the "SHAM", and deems their activity as LEGAL, then how is it any different.......


It is different it too many ways to list really. It's like purposely going 10 miles past the 3 mile limit for blues and catching nothing but stripers intentionally. Illegal, but easy to beat in court. Why do you care about what the japanese govt calls it?

Please see Post #20 by Goinsfishin - Just because YOU think it's wrong.......does not mean it is. And now you're comparing an ILLEGAL activity with an LEGAL activity.....talk about comparing 2 topics having NOTHING In common......other then they both involve fishing

[Big Liar]

Can't be compared? You have got to be kidding me. First capt. dumb a$$ was a member of PETA until they decided to go their seperate ways because he was too radical for PETA. Both Rockfish and Whales have been deemed to have high mercury levels, unsafe for constant human consumption. The only way they are different is because you are on the oposite side of the fence with your opinion of each animal. Don't think PETA would not consider trying to disrupt you in radical way from fishing for Rockfish. Then will your stance be the same way. Any time you think it's ok for un-authorized radicals to perform illegal radical acts against any group of people because you don't agree with something they are doing, I see that as a problem. The next time some group wants to pass legislation against all types of fishing or protest against fishing in any way, I should not see any post from you on here crying to everyone. To me, what the sea shepards are doing is no different than what terrorist do. They both are extreemist and feel super strongly about their cause. They both believe that their end justifies their means. They both operate outside the law and try to draw attention to themselves. If you say that you support what the sea shepards are doing, you might as well say that you would support terrorisism as long as it was supporting a view of yours. Not cool.

It's much better to allow the original poster's daughter and her group do their job. I definitely agree with that approach and applaud her efforts.

[shiloh]

Jim,

I have to respectfully disagree with your response to my post. I do not accept your proposition that whaling would continue without Sea Shephard protests when there are non-violent and effective alternatives. I view the Sea Shephard tactics as on a plane with spiking redwood trees. The point I was making is that there are more constructive ways to address the issue with the Japanese Government suggested by other posts and by mine that need not endanger the lives of the protesters and fisherman.. Although it should be beside the point, my sympathies are with the whales, but from my perspective the Sea Shephard is more of an impediment than an aid to a solution.

[LY2000]

I'd be all for a blockade of Reedville too, how bout you? I applaud the efforts of the daughter too and wish her luck. I assume you are cool with things like taking LMB off spawning beds and keeping them, it's legal after all. Anyway, under international law, whaling is illegal.

I'm done and can agree to disagree.

[flats cat]

Can't be compared? You have got to be kidding me. First capt. dumb a$$ was a member of PETA until they decided to go their seperate ways because he was too radical for PETA. Both Rockfish and Whales have been deemed to have high mercury levels, unsafe for constant human consumption. The only way they are different is because you are on the oposite side of the fence with your opinion of each animal. Don't think PETA would not consider trying to disrupt you in radical way from fishing for Rockfish. Then will your stance be the same way. Any time you think it's ok for un-authorized radicals to perform illegal radical acts against any group of people because you don't agree with something they are doing, I see that as a problem. The next time some group wants to pass legislation against all types of fishing or protest against fishing in any way, I should not see any post from you on here crying to everyone. To me, what the sea shepards are doing is no different than what terrorist do. They both are extreemist and feel super strongly about their cause. They both believe that their end justifies their means. They both operate outside the law and try to draw attention to themselves. If you say that you support what the sea shepards are doing, you might as well say that you would support terrorisism as long as it was supporting a view of yours. Not cool.

It's much better to allow the original poster's daughter and her group do their job. I definitely agree with that approach and applaud her efforts.

I think it was Greenpeace not PETA. Let me say I do not agree their tactics at all either. If this clown is allowed allowed to continue, someone is going to be killed. If you screw up where this is taking place help is a long, long way away.

[Z28YJ]

Anyway, under international law, whaling is illegal.

I've heard lots of people say this. Can anybody post a link to such a law? Maybe some information about any sanctioning bodies?

[Jerkbait-PA]

I’m not sure but from watching Whale Wars, it was my understanding that Japanese were whaling legally through a loop hole in the international law. I thought the show said as long as they are collecting samples for study they are allowed to take a limited number of whales. The Sea Sheppard’s and Green Peace claim that the research is a scam so that the Japanese can continue to whale. In all honesty this isn’t a big issue with me and I am surprised it has hit such a nerve with fishermen. To me it is like a guy who shoots birds supporting anti deer hunts!

Don’t try to explain it to me because you can’t just as that bird hunter couldn’t convince me he wasn’t a hypocrite

Jerkbait-PA

[C-Hawk18]

I was out on a zodiac most of yesterday observing whales up close and each one was a family of three, a father, mother and calf they stay together for approx 8 mos. The calves cant survive without the mother so I wouldnt take any pleasure in harpooning them and I understand why the crew of teh Sea Shepard feels how they do.

So do you think the whales are more like Deer? Deer are not fish either. Why then should Deer hunting be allowed? PETA is right?

Maybe you should give up fishing, crabbing and eating ALL meat. Don't fish swim in schools? Just like the little whale family? Did you follow them to church? Did they drop the little ones off at school?
Let's bring this back to reality......Whales are NOT human.

[Jerkbait-PA]

JR,

So why aren’t you out there ramming into the Omega fleet?

It’s not that I like or condone what the Japanese whaling fleet is doing as much as I condemn what the Sea Sheppard’s are doing.

How many human lives is a whale worth?

I actually wish I had tried whale when I was in Japan. The whole issue has made me very curios at to what the whale meat tastes like. I was told that the texture is like a very tender beef but more like the taste of bison.

Guess I’ll never know!

[shiloh]

Did a little research. The IWC ( International Whaling Commission ) was established in 1946 to regulate commercial whaling. The stated purpose was to "provide for the proper conservation of whale stocks and thus make possible the commercial whaling and the orderly development of the whaling industry". Japan is a member. Any member may object to a decision of the IWC and thereby not be bound by it. The IWC declared a moratorium on july 23,1982 on all whaling (with some quota exceptions for Inuits, carribbean counties, etc.). Whaling for research was excepted. Japan objected to the moratorium and so at that time was not bound by it.

The Regan Administration, after enviornmental groups filed a lawsuit to enforce a US law that would limit japanese commercial fishing in US territorial waters, cut a deal whereby the Japanese would withdraw objection to the Whaling Moratorium and cease whaling by 1988 and, in return, the US would not impose further limitations on Japs right to fish in US waters. The deal was approved by a US Supreme court decision in 1986 , thus ending the original litigation. With the Japanese objection to the moratorium withdrawn, it seemed that an end to JAP whaling would indeed occur. However, it was not to be. An alliance of US west coast fishing interests and enviornmental groups brought other unrelated lawsuits challenging the fishing techniques used by Jap fishing fleets which resulted in a curtailment of Japanese fishing quotas in the late 1980's. Whether the Japanese merely used this as an excuse or honestly perceived it to be a renege on the deal made with the Reagan Administration no one really can say. At any rate, the Japanese did not , in their view, get their end of the bargain. So, at this juncture, they began whaling under the research exception of the 1982 moratorium.

So, it looks like current Japanese whaling, if for commercial and not research purposes is illegal under international law. It also looks like the enviornmental lobby, by perhaps overzealous efforts, queered what looked like a pretty good deal to end Japanese commercial whaling. The sources for this post are wikipedia and a May 16, 2007 BBC Article entitled "Did the Greens help kill the whales" If anyone can instruct me on how to link to these articles I will do so.

For the record, I understand there is another member using "Shiloh" as a call name who hails from the western shore. I live on the eastern shore and am not one and the same.

[Jonah]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6659401.stm

Copy the "address" of the link/ story, etc.
In your topic or reply, press the little Earth Linky Thing... Earth with what looks like a chain "link". A window will pop-up. Paste the address in the pop-up. Execute.

[shiloh]

Sea Shephard Tactics are not constructive and stupid. Same kind of fervor that helped kill the deal made in the 80's to end Jap Whaling. If the whaling is subsidized and not commercially viable as seems to be the case there should be a way out of this mess. But the politics is "hot" as they say, and the Sea Shephard folks only make it worse..