Cold weather clothing

[Capt.Nick]

I've got neopreme chest waders.I'd like to get a Neopreme jacket & gloves.Where can I get them?I've got a gortex rain jacket but I don't believe that will be enough.

[Fisherman]

Aquaskinz - the way to go. www.aquaskinz.com

[Capt.Nick]

The products look goood..Now for a decision?

[fishfool]

http://www.kayakacademy.com/catalog/kayak%20accessories.html#DRY%20SUITS%20AND%20WET%2 0SUITS

---Scroll to "Dry suit by Kokatat'Swift Entry'"-double click for picture

[Capt.Nick]

These are tight fitting neopreme waders,like sweat pants.

[Chad]

Neoprene is really only effective in the water. I recommend that you go with some breathable waders, fleece underneath and a dry top over the top. If you wear your PFD on top of the drytop this system acts alomost like a drysuit for a fraction of the cost and you can layer under it. Under armour, mysterio and IR are great brands for layering.
Chad

[FishingRod]

The mysterioso gear is great stuff. I like it much better than the UnderArmour. I usually wear dry top and dry pants with just the mysterioso underneath.

I just bought some breathable waders and gonna try the waders this year instead of the dry pants. With dry pants your feet still get wet. I usually layer over my dry top because taking it off the drytop can be somewhat of a pain. If it is really cold and windy I will have mysterioso top, dry top and then fleece vest (and maybe a windbreaker rain jacket) over my dry top and of course the PFD for a final layer of protection.

[fishfool]

The kokatat dry suit for $349 I linked to (or any dry suit) is the safest bet.

I can put on thermals, medium fleece, capsize at the second island or eastern shore, ( or do a 'wet' entry in a sit inside kayak if I need to, pump the water,) and not sweat it.

Any kind of wader is D-E-A-D-L-Y if you go in the drink. They fill up with water, you cant swim, your better off naked.

You guys should look at the book on the top of the link i gave, its full of accounts of things gone wrong, and how people survived. Check out other books on sea kayaking in cold water.

If you go out in waders, neoprene or otherwise, you really should'nt go out past the second set of breakers.

I dont wanna be all 'nanny-nanny-Im-telling-you-so'-but a lot of people have died in waders while duck hunting or otherwise, and going in the drink.

[FishingRod]

fishfool, i have to agree with you that a drysuit is the safest bet.

But did the people who died in waders have a wader belt, dry top and PFD?

[fishfool]

Probably not much of either. It used to happen in the 50's and 60's when people would be out duck hunting out of small boats. I am just going on hearsay, from my grandfathers generation.

When you think about the dynamics, even with a good belt and upper neoprene watertight jacket, it is bad news. Its all great if you never capsize, but, if you do, your waders want to float becase of all the air trapped in them, pushing you horizontally, the air wants to escape, and once it does, youve got (if you weigh 190) 190 pounds of water wanting to get past the belt. Ever been in a sit-in-kayak after it took on just three gallons of water?-big differance in boyancy-my point is that you only need to take in about a gallon or so of water to become non-boyant(if you have a vest-well maybe 2) -thats not something I want as a margin of error If I am out even a few hundred yards.

64,000 question- Will my wader belt hold back water at 190 psi, and not allow 1-2 gallons in, leaving me neutrally boyant with 1-2 foot swells going right over my head? Dont forget the hypothermia, and the fact that I only have about 5-10 minutes to raise my body temperature.

It's not something I want to fool around with.

One reason I am jumping up and down about it is from my experiences buying gear for long wintertime mountain hikes. When I add up all the time, money and energy iv'e spent on inadequate equipement leaving me miserable, only to eventually have to shell out the next 200 bucks for the right thing, it's ridiculous.

hodgeman's waders=80
dry jacket =150+
=230+

full body water tight dry suit =350 (note: I can go for a swim, get back on, and fish for 2-3 more hours possibly)

I think The extra 120 bucks for something i can go for a swim in, and not worry about having hypothermia in 7 minutes is well worth it. Much less if I have to worry about getting back to land. If you get flipped in a 'sit-inside' with waders on-you are practicly dead unless you have an enormous amount of experience doing wet entries, it's practicly impossible with waders on.

The other reason I am jumping up and down about this, is because kayaking is relatively new to this area. It's been around for a while, but not a lot of people have experience in cold weather. In the pacific northwest and northeast, people have a lot more experience dealing with the elements. In this area, it seems like a lot of people are fishing, and want to go for stripers in November, and naturally would grab the waders and a dry jacket. I would hate to see it become the norm to use them, and travel out to, say the first island at night. I think if a lot of people used waders while striper fishing, someone would end up dead within a few years.
I would rather have the dry suit.
-just my .02

[FishingRod]

fishfool, very good points. I think entering cold water with out PFD is deadly. If you enter the drink with PFD your chance of survival is better and also depends on your cold water clothing gear. The fullbody drysuit will definetly give the best protection in staying dry if you are in stranded in the water for a long period of time.

I have been seriously considering get a full body drysuit.
During winter I mostly go out mild conditions in calm back creeks. This winter if I find myself taking more trips out in the main Bay in extreme conditions in 40 degree water I probably will get the full body drysuit.

It all depends on the conditions and what level of risk you are willing to take.

[Capt.Nick]

I haven't read any books on Kayaking.These are my thoughts and I'm sure if I thought of these many others have also.First there's no contest that sot's are safer.2nd.I'd tie a hand line to the paddle in case I dropped it.3 rd.I'd tie a safety line to my torso to the Kayak so I wouldn't lose it if I did fall out.With a PFD and the mentioned,I feel I could get back on or at least hold on to the Kayak and get the neopreme waders off if they did get enough water in them that I couldn't back on.Does this sound like a plan?

[fishfool]

http://www.kayakacademy.com/book.html

I havent read it, so i dont know. I think it looks good. Some of the other general books on touring have 1/3 dedicated to coping with cold water and spills.

[Capt.Nick]

No matter how you cut it.Our lives are on the line.I look at it like life Insurance.

[Sandtiger]

Capt.Nick originally wrote:
I haven't read any books on Kayaking.These are my thoughts and I'm sure if I thought of these many others have also.First there's no contest that sot's are safer.2nd.I'd tie a hand line to the paddle in case I dropped it.3 rd.I'd tie a safety line to my torso to the Kayak so I wouldn't lose it if I did fall out.With a PFD and the mentioned,I feel I could get back on or at least hold on to the Kayak and get the neopreme waders off if they did get enough water in them that I couldn't back on.Does this sound like a plan?

I don't think it's a plan ....Not in cold water............... your strength would be gone pretty quickly I'm afraid. Wet suit or dry..... I personally am apprehensive about waders. I also hope everyone that is going out in their kayaks have had some training on survival in their kayak. Not quite like getting back in your power or sail boat.......[excited]

Let me add this (and I have no interest in this other than for people to get an education). People using kayaks need instruction and SIKs are not easy to re-enter if you don't know how.

http://www.kayakinstruction.us

[Cory ruthless Routh]

I can attest fully to the advantages of the dry suits, I wear a two piece suit by Palm. I have two different kinds of fleece silk and expedition weight. I have been in the drink several times with this on and hardly noticed the water temp. Others have also went in with the waders/dry top combination and where back on their SOT before the cold set in.

The key is to have the PFD tight so it prevents total water intrusion. Wet suits will not work becaus thay have to be wet to work (body heat warms the water between the neoprene and your skin)

Ill see if I can post a picture of what I wear

[fishfool]

You wont catch me out there in anything but a one peice dry suit after October. simple, efficient, and about 350 bucks.

[Chad]

Fishfool,
I totally agree with you however, the recommendations here are based on the fact that most guys already have the waders and the recommendations are designed to offer an option to make them effective with the addition of a dry top and tightening your PFD. Most guys I have talked too are not willing or able to spend the money on a good dry suit. If the proper precautions are taken, the use of breathable chest waders with the chest bungee tightened, a wading belt and the addition of a good dry top with your pfd tightened on top of it and layered clothing is an effective and safe option. Also, without putting on your dry suit properly you run the same risk of trapped air causing you to float horizontally. If you squat and force the air out just as you would with a dry suit you will be fine. The idea here is to be safe, get the most bang for your buck and have a system that is functional in mild, medium and extreme conditions. Most people are not going to wear a dry suit even if they own on when the water is 70 and air is 80 degrees and with prolonged exposure you can and will be a victim of hypothermia in 70 water. These milder conditions that don't scare people are in my opinion the most dangerouus because people tend to have a false sense of security.
Chad
Chad

[George Z]

Great discussion. I agree that the best system is a drysuit, whether one piece or two piece. But I've been surfing year round since the late sixties so I've always had a couple of wetsuits. When it started getting cool last year (I'm talking water temps and /or air temps), I was yaking with just a wetsuit and PFD. When it started getting colder, I added a splash top and 5 mil booties. When it was really cold, I was wearing Under Armor, wetsuit, splash top and pants, gloves and hat. I always tested the gear for the temps after I added anything by actually going into the water with it, close to a warm vehicle and dry clothes. Not the best setup, but since I like being in the surf and I know I'm gonna get wet, it works for me. But a dry system is definately on my list.

[Sandtiger]

I found this...............

http://www.nrsweb.com/Cold_Water_Layering.asp

EDIT: Here's another article on cold water protection and how to dress from the same kayak site as above;

http://www.nrsweb.com/hypothermia.asp

Very good reading on both of these items

[ataw]

Anyone seen Tall Sizes for these dry suits? I am 6'3" with long arms and legs.

[Sandtiger]

ataw originally wrote:
Anyone seen Tall Sizes for these dry suits? I am 6'3" with long arms and legs.


Here ya go..............

http://www.nrsweb.com/shop/product_list.asp?deptid=1174

then click on the type dry suit you're interested in and when that page comes up there'll be a size chart at the bottom. [grin]

[EDIT]: Oh yeah, there's a toll free number all the way at the bottom of the page. Great peopleto talk to (my first time today) and very helpful [excited]

I ordered an Endurance paddling top from them today and for $3 more I'll have it in a couple of days versus ground shipment of 6 days. I've seen some of their stuff in stores and it appears to be pretty good quality.

[YakandSurf]

Just got off the phone with Kokatat watersports wear. They have drysuits that are sized for people that have big waste lines. The size is large king. They have three drysuits that come in this size.
Kokatat Super Nova, Kokatat Gore-tex, and I missed the last one but I think they said the Kokatat Meridian.
According to Kokatat the only store in hampton roads that sell Kokatat drysuits is WRO. NRS also carries Kokatat drysuits.
www.kokatat.com
www.nrsweb.com

[BMac2]

I too am trying to decide what to wear for fall/winter fishing. I'll purchase a dry suit if necessary, but I'd like to avoid the extra cost if possible. I already have a pair of sockingfoot breathable waders, a pair of stockingfoot neoprene waders, and a 2 piece neoprene wet suit ("farmer john" bottom and jacket) that I have used numerous times snorkeling in cold water (50 degrees or so).

I could buy a dry top and use it with my waders as suggested, but I was considering using the farmer john part of my wetsuit instead, and combining it with a splash top, belt, mysterioso shirt, and, of course, a PFD (and maybe windpants to cut down cooling caused by evaporation).

George -- I'm curious about your experience using a wet suit last year. What thickness was the wetsuit you were using and was it a full wet suit as opposed to a farmer john?

Cory -- if I understand you correctly, you feel that a neoprene wet suit is not a good choice because it works only when in the water. However, a number of kayaking web sites I've visited recommend wet suits for use when paddling in cold water. Not having much experience using a wet suit for kayak fishing as opposed to snorkeling, I'm a little confused. Can you explain a little more why you feel a wetsuit isn't a good choice? Maybe I'm missing something.

Thanks for the help. This really is a timely discussion.

[YakandSurf]

Bmac2, last year (my first year kayaking) I used the farmer John wetsuit 3mil. with a semi-dry top. and it worked fine for me in the lower Chesapeake bay. I took 2 dunks in november when the water was in the 50's. I did stop paddling mid December when the water went into the 40's.
I love fishing in the cold but I'm not ready to give up my life just yet. I have a limited budget and I will be patient with the cold weather until I can afford a drysuit.
Also with more people kayak fishing, hopefully the companies will take note and start making more sizes to fit our fishing hind parts and the price could come down due to more sales.

Robert

[George Z]

BMac2, I have several wetsuits. My favorite is a 3 mil farmer john I got from NRS. Paddling in a full wetsuit wears me out in a hurry, although I've done it several times. The farmer john works well and as it gets colder, I'll start adding splash layers over it and polypro insulating layers under it. I just don't like waders because of the worst case scenario of being seperated from my yak and water getting into the waders. But if the water is cold enough to kill you if you are seperated from your yak, I think a drysuit is the only sane way to go.

[JimBob]

Great discussion guys...

I don't think anybody mentioned the Dry Suit article in the October issue of Canoe and Kayak, which I picked up after first seeing this discussion.

They rate some suits (for whatever that is worth) and also give some contact points for various brands.

Jim