dogs running while bow hunting

[Sea-Ya]

Why is it some ahole always has to run deer dogs during bow season.My brother was hunting Sat AM and at the crack of dawn some hounds came in the area and stayed there running all AM.He was pissed trying to still hunt and listening to dogs.I told him he should had slipped over to the dogs and maybe got a shot.
I have killed two before that dogs were running bow hunting.
We think it will spook the woods and make deer not move as much except the deer that they're after.
What ya think?

[Big Cat]

Here we go.....

[kepone cats]

I went into my honey hole to find that the neighbors kid went in there and tied surveyors tape on trees all over the place the day before the season. He said he was marking deer trails and fox holes. I don't get it. I made it clear to them to stay out of there and I pulled down all the ribbons. In the evening I was hunting and a friend of a friend and his son, came down to the pond 30 min. before dark and fished for 20 minutes, slamming car doors, talking, screaming, sliding tackle boxes etc. I was across the pond inside the woods in my stand. They ask me why I am not a people person. ?! [shy]

[rock n crab]

Hey guys, if people visiting your hunting area is the norm the deer will get used to it. I've shot deer at my dads place not 100 yards from where he was weedeating and that is the norm there. My father is always outside on his tractor or using his chainsaw and the deer in the area seem to have accepted this and move in there normal patterns skirting his noise, and I use this to my advantage most of the time. They keep their attention on his noise and walk into my lap most days. It's something we all have to accepts for the most part, I too hated to hear noise while on stand and years ago it didn't happen too often but now it's common place to sit in your stand and hear peoples heatpumps kick on and off and have cars zooom by. Just add the noise factor into your scouting trip info log and keep hunting.
Happiness is a gut pile :)

[ketch69]

We heard dogs running hard this afternoon just before deer came to the plot we were sitting on. This time of year when the nights start getting cool its gonna happen. I too run hounds during the firearms season so maybe I can deal with it better than those that don't.


DEAN

[RUBLEML]

JEFF,I KNOW YOU DONT MEAN THAT!!!!!(SHOOT A DOG)

[Sea-Ya]

Don't get me wrong.I have eight deer beagles and I love to hear the dogs running more than killing a deer of course unless it's a trophy buck.[grin]
But when I'm in my own world in a tree bow hunting it is not the time to be hearing dogs run.
Mine won't be in the woods till gun season.
The last week of gun season my dogs are just getting right.I would have to run mine all bow and black powder to even get close to getting them in shape.
Next time I hear some near by running in circles bow hunting I'm going to slip in on em and shoot.[grin]

Matt,I'm only going to shoot the ones that look like coyotes.

[RANGER690]

Live trap the dogs and go shark fishing!!!

Dayton

[RUBLEML]

HEY,HEY,HEY NOW.......EASY....EASY.....SOME OF US HAVE THOUSANDS INVESTED AND ARE A LITTLE SENSITIVE!(EVEN THOUGH I KNOW YOUR JOKING!?....RIGHT?HAHAHA)

[RANGER690]

Here, I will give ya a smiley.

[smile][grin][wink][tongue]

I don't want to see any domestic animals harmed.

Dayton

[Tail Chaser]

Jeff,

Classic, kinda gives you a feel for how those that don't dog hunt feel during the rest of the season.

Russ
[grin]

[hillbilly Jr]

.....

[rapprunner]

hillbilly Jr originally wrote:
I have found a new place to hunt and have a little DOG problem. I have tried to talk to the owner of the Pain in my hunting ass I to have problem shooting a DOG (but a cat is fair game). These people seem to think that even though it is not there property that the dogs should not be on the leash or pinned. I have told the man that owns the property and he in turn informed the people that own the dogs, that dogs and BOW hunting do not mix. I will put a carborn hunter with a thundehead in one of them Friday if I see them with NO REMORSE. If you take the time to tell someone that you are hunting and please contain your dogs or cats and they don't they would be SOL.

Hey now, everybody ought to cool their jets about this dog shooting thing. I don't like free ranging dogs anymore than the next guy; however, to get on here and start talking about shooting someones dogs is getting a little out of hand. We alraedy have people that think hunters are meat hungry savages (PETA for instance) and when we as outdoorsman start making comments such as: "I will put a carborn hunter with a thundehead in one of them Friday if I see them with NO REMORSE" is out and out STUPID. Come on Hillbilly, Jr, what are you thinking? I would like to add that if I were in your shoes I'd be a little more careful what you say and post on a fairly public board---never know who is reading what you write. Keep on fueling the fire for the "anti's" that is what we really need!!!!![sad]

Gentlemen, if I am out of line here please say so. Again I emphasize that I don't like having free roaming dogs ruining my hunts but to start shooting dogs and cats----well I just don't know about that one.

Regards and Good Hunting, even to those here whose ethics have gone awry.

Rapprunner

[Big Cat]

As has been said before every year. If my dog got loose and somebody shot him. I probably would't hesitate to shoot back. I have had dogs come through while I am bow hunting before, I sat quite and waited for them to leave. They did and out came the deer. Don't be stupid, unless you really are and in that case get out the woods!

[RUBLEML]

I AGREE WITH BIG CAT.........and furthermore,usually the people that shoot dogs,cats,coons,-so on and so forth are the ones that arent to successfull with the intended target anyways!!!!!!!

[ketch69]

Let me get this right. You are hunting on someone elses property and are gonna shoot a dog that belongs to them. I guess you don't like that peice of property.


DEAN

[rapprunner]

hillbilly Jr originally wrote:
I have found a new place to hunt and have a little DOG problem. I have tried to talk to the owner of the Pain in my hunting ass I to have problem shooting a DOG (but a cat is fair game). These people seem to think that even though it is not there property that the dogs should not be on the leash or pinned. I have told the man that owns the property and he in turn informed the people that own the dogs, that dogs and BOW hunting do not mix. I will put a carborn hunter with a thundehead in one of them Friday if I see them with NO REMORSE. If you take the time to tell someone that you are hunting and please contain your dogs or cats and they don't they would be SOL.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Brandon,
Hillbilly Jr has edited the original post, but I quote him here. Rapprunner
[/Q]

[1seaproer]

several years ago we had dogs get to fighting in the pen and had to seperate them. We left on young male out cause he got wipped pretty bad. Bow season was in and we were trying to get a crop in and didn't put the dog up(very nice dog from good stock). I was backing a peanut trailer to the dryer and found him dead with the tell-tell x mark behind the shoulder. This is a small farming community that everyone knows everyone. The local hunt club is made up of local land owners and residents. A man from out of town had permission to hunt 50 acres in the middle of 10,000. He was not from around here and didn't understand how most of us feel. I love to bow, muzzle loader, still, and dog hunt. I have had tons of deer turned off of me by dogs, trucks, and other hunters. Thats hunting!! Over the years i have had nice broke dogs come up missing(squirrel dogs, rabbit dogs, and deer dogs. Some one that would take or kill someones dog has no business hunting. This might be why it is hard for strangers to get permission to hunt private land or join local hunt clubs.

[bigjim5589]

There was a message posted on the Freshwater Fishing board that related to this post, and in particular the message posted by hillbilly, jr.. I posted the following reply before I had read this board:

"I don't necessarily agree with his method, but I agree with the principle that the dog should not be roaming free on someone else's property, especially after the dog owner was informed about the hunting activities.

I had a similar situation many years ago, while trapping nuisance raccoons on a friends property. The raccoons were getting into the friends attic, and in return for getting rid of them, I was given permission to trap muskrats on the property. (It was water front property). I did a lot of trapping back then.

There was a neighbor who had a dog that roamed the neighborhood, and was a nuisance, mostly to the trash cans in the area. The dog started to steal my muskrat catches, trap and all. The friend told his neighbor that I was trapping there & to please keep the dog on his own property. The neighbor said the dog never left the property, so it wasn't his problem.

The dog got his head into one of my body grip traps that was set for the raccoons, and died. The trap was legally set in a marshy area, and the dog got to the trap because the water had froze over. The trap had been there for a few weeks, but the area was very muddy, so the dog didn't venture there until it froze over.

The dog owner of course, wanted to call the police & raised a stink with my friend. He didn't call the cops however.

I talked to one of the local DNR officers about the situation a few days later, on another property that I was trapping, and he told me that he shoots free roaming dogs, and there are leash laws in my state. I also talked to a friend who was a county police officer, and he basically told me the same thing as the DNR officer.

What had happened was unintentional and unfortunate, but the dog owner had a responsibility to keep the dog on his property, and he ignored the notice that I was trapping on my friends property. The dog that never left his property, left it one time too many.

I can see the guys point about the dog, but he should probably talk to a DNR or local police officer about the problem before he shoots the dog."

After reading the other posts here's the rest of my 2 cents.

Dogs will go where they are trained to go, especially hunting dogs, and non-hunting types will just follow their nose. The owner of such dogs are the responsible party, and should be held accountable for the dogs whereabouts. If a property owner gives permission to someone to hunt, and someone else's dogs are roaming that property, and the dog's owner won't take appropriate action to keep the dogs away, then some other solution has to be found. However, I wouldn't shoot someone's dog just because it passed thru where I was hunting. If it was a continuous problem, and talking with the dogs owner didn't get results, then I would get the law involved first.

In the many years that I hunted & trapped I've killed 2 dogs. I'm not proud of it! One attacked me while I was squirrel hunting, the other was caught in a trap, had no tags or collar & acted so vicious I couldn't get near to it to let it go. I've also released several from traps. The dog that attacked me also had no collar, and was running deer with several other stray dogs. It was half starved, and was probably abandoned by someone who just didn't or wouldn't take care of it.

All types of hunting activities have to share what property is available,and as has been said by rapprunner, there are anti's who want to stop us, ALL of us! Whenever a problem like this happens, don't act like a jerk! Pursue a solution in a calm & legal manner, even though the situation makes you mad. The dogs don't know any better, but their owners should.

[Stumpknocker]

You must not have much heart or sense to kill a dog. We have seen dogs from time to time in or woods and we let them run by. Dogs get loose once in a while and you deal with it!!

[nicbuc]

If you go back and read the original message by Sea-Ya, he never said he killed the dogs he killed the deer off the dogs...and recommended that his brother slip in and get a shot...Now I am related to both of them and know for a FACT that neither of them have it in them to shoot a dog...
The easiest thing to do if the dog had markings like you said then call "DH" and tell him to get up his dogs. if not call the LAW, or suck it up and enjoy the hunt.

You better print this Sea-Ya, cause it ain't everyday I'm gonna come to your defense. [grin]

[JTB]

Some one mentioned the "thousands" invested in his dogs. Well how about the thousands that I invest as a bowhunter??? I rent land in Bedford and Albermarle Co. just to get away from the dogs here in eastern VA. I spend and incredible amount in food, gasoline, lodging, time away from work(selfemployed) and most importantly time from family when I would like to be closer to home during hunting season.
Why go away to hunt you say??? I rented a piece in New Kent Co. and a piece in Charles City Co. with a few great guys some years back. We did it right letting little bucks walk, providing supplemental food plots ect... doing things to enhance the heard and our chances of killing a nice deer. What happened? The dog clubs heard about our little venture and decided on the days they saw our trucks parked in OCTOBER they were going to run some "foxes" which is legal because of our corrupt cronyism VGIF laws here in VA. Problem is the dog clubs would drop the tailgate while we were in the tree ON OUR LAND and hush in 50 to 60 hounds to f$%k up our hunt because they knew we were there and word on the street was they didn't want us to get a head start on "their" deer. Game wardens would say" fox season is in", sorry. Then when gunseason came in and we were trying to bowhunt they would drop some times close to 100 dogs on us to push the deer out the otherside and yes, they decimated the nice bucks we had worked so hard to grow.
Yes alot of dogs had accidents that year. Seems they kept running into sharp objects. Poor little fellers.

After talking to game officials, outfitters and hunters in IA, KS and IL I hope some day dog hunting is HISTORY so we can have some peace and sanity and more deer like they have in the mid- west. I know not all dogs clubs do to people what was done to us, but the same thing did happen in two different counties. If you dog hunt, have some morals please it is only fair to the hunters around you and the dogs. Bowhunters now deal with squirrel hunters, turkey dogs/hunters,muzzleloading, deer hounds supposidly running foxes and now crossbows. Bowhunters get screwed EVERY time a new season or idea comes up.. and it is a shame.

[earlyriser]

Dont get me wrong guys, but I hope that hunting deer with dogs never gets band, this is just a type of tradition that has passed down from one generation to another. I have family pictures of my great great grand parents with hounds and I would love to carry on the tradition. I love bowhunting as much as the rest of you guys, muzzleloader hunting isnt that much fun to me, but regular deer season I love, sometimes I would much rather hear the dogs run than get a shot at a deer. However there is a time and place for running dogs and it is the dog owners judgment call, whether to let dogs out or not, from my understanding you cannot run deer for training purposes, someone correct me if I am wrong. But nothing can keep him from hunting other animals that are in season. And you cannot keep the owner off of your property as long as he doesnt have a gun and is looking for his dogs. And shooting the dogs arent the answer, always put yourself in the other shoes, how would you like your fido killed because you turned him/her out for a run?? If though you are 100% positive the dogs are wild dogs and there are no doubts in your mind then I would say shot them, because wild dogs do alot more damage to your deer population then what you know.

[Stickin Em]

Slade, your reply sickens me. Haven't I taught you better than this? [grin]

[FishHook321]

JTB, I'm from Albemarle County and dog hunting is legal there. If you really want to get away from the dogs go over the mountain. I hunt with bow, muzzelloader, rifle and shotgun. I hunt with and without dogs. The thought of you putting a "Sharp Object" into a dog makes you the bad guy. It's not the dogs fault, it's the owner. When you shoot a dog for doing what he's trained to do is like baning weapons (guns) because they kill people. The dogs owners are responsible for his actions and there are other legal recourses that can be done other than shooting a dog. People like you give hunting a bad name.

[trex]

Recently there was a case in Va. where a man shot a hound owners dog. The dog owner pressed charges on the shooter. Went to court and the man was fined $5000 and lost his hunting rights for 2 years. He's not allowed to even own a firearm for 2 years. He is allowed to accompany his son if his son wants to hunt but thats it. So next time you guys get ready to pull the trigger on someone elses hound, think about it. Is it really worth it. If you REALLY like to hunt I doubt it. Just roll with the punches

[HI TIDES DRIFTER]

The 1st day of bow season a friend of mine was hunting the swamp behind his house, he had a deer almost in range of his recurve when he started hearing someone shooting. The guy continued towards him until the deer was gone and apeared to be squrrel hunting, he hadn't seen anyone back there in 10 years of hunting,but he has had plenty of dogs run deer while he was back there. He's never been cold hearted enough or stupid enough to take a shot at either one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[HI TIDES DRIFTER]

The 1st day of bow season a friend of mine was hunting the swamp behind his house, he had a deer almost in range of his recurve when he started hearing someone shooting. The guy continued towards him until the deer was gone and apeared to be squrrel hunting, he hadn't seen anyone back there in 10 years of hunting,but he has had plenty of dogs run deer while he was back there. He's never been cold hearted enough or stupid enough to take a shot at either one!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JTB]

Fishhook,
Not quite sure you understand. In food plots, seed, fertilizer, equipment rental, TIME and rent for the land we had over $10,000 invested and we weren't bothering a soul.

The surrounding hunters HATED the fact we had nice deer and turned dogs loose on OUR rented land sometimes up to 100 at a time illegally no less and slaughtered the bucks. During bow season they blew the place out by seeing our trucks, knowing we were hunting and pulling up on the land that we PAID for and illegally dumped dozens of dogs on us to keep us from killing a deer. Maybe you need to take a step back for a minute an think a little harder on this. Remember, the game wardens did nothing but ask the dog guys if they were running deer during bow season and of course they said no we are running "foxes".

We gave the "authorities" ample time and info to rectify the problem, but how are they supposed to enforce a law as crazy as the fox chase law? We did not put the dogs in danger, the owners did and they did so by breaking the law. Here is the deal, $10,000 later and no help from VGIF something was going to give and someone was going to pay and accidents started to happen.

We did not ask for trouble , but we damn sure got it because we happen to hunt with an unpopular weapon and style in the neighborhood. The worst part are the dogs are definately caught in the middle I agree. Do I want bad things to happen to a dog , no. I've had ample opportunity to take out dogs since that wander onto me hunting but I don't and won't. You let a bunch a renegades do what they did to us after spending that kind of money and time and retaliation is coming.

I'm not a problem to hunting at all, the boys who did what they did to us are the problem. After going to the proper authoritative channels and getting no results we were not going to just lay down and take it... you can push a man around but so far.

As for Albermarle Co. I know the regs on dogs , but where we a re we have have not sen or heard one in years.

[RANGER690]

Thanks for re-explaining yourself, JTB. You are a coward. Not to mention a criminal. Grow a set and take it up with the hunt club guys.

Dayton

[RUBLEML]

AMEN RANGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[rapprunner]

RANGER690 originally wrote:
Thanks for re-explaining yourself, JTB. You are a coward. Not to mention a criminal. Grow a set and take it up with the hunt club guys.

Dayton


Tell it like it is Ranger!

JTB, did you or your half a$$ buddies go tell the hunt club guys you shot there dogs? Probably not because you knew damn well you were WRONG and were too AFRAID you might get an A$$ whipping. It pretty much takes a low life slob of a "so called" hunter to shoot a mans dog---matter of fact anyone who would do such is just that, a low life piece of nothing.

[JTB]

Ranger, Rapprunner,Rubleml,

The first time it happened, we caught as many of the dogs as we could and took them out to the main road where this dog club had catch pens. We put the dogs in the pen because we could not find the trespasser who illegally pulled his truck onto our land and illegally turned loose his hounds to screw our hunt. So we return their dogs safe and sound back to them in the catch lot.

The second time was the second saturday of archery season maybe 5 days after the first incident. 4 of us were hunting and right at daybreak primetime they trespass with their trucks drop the tailgate and shuck about 80 dogs in on us in 3 different spots.One guy hunting with us has a big dog box on his truck for his rabbit dogs and we procede to catch 12 dogs and head back up to the road. When we get to the main road there are over 30 trucks and maybe 45 members of their club standing around. We ask for the president and he comes over and we tell him we caught 12 of his dogs and wanted to return them and he said "great we really appreciate it". As we put dogs from our truck into his we tell him that we need to talk about what they were doing and that what they were doing to us was wrong. As soon as the last dog gets put in his truck he turns to us and says for us NEVER to catch another GD dog of theirs again!

Ranger we didn't have to grow a set, we did what was right and when we called them on what they were doing they got Sh%tty.

The next week, same thing, so we call the game warden and he meets with them and they said they were having fox trials and just a few dogs wandered over on us which was lie.

The 4th time the land owner and the game warden got involved to no avail.

So Ranger and others, by you not commenting on the dog club's illegal activities it says that if you hunt with dogs it is ok to do what ever the hell you want to other people and their property.

We went up the ladder from dog owners to getting the land owners help to the authorities and nothing changed and things got worse. Maybe if it was your money and time and effort that was spent you wouldn't feel the need to pass judgement, call names and come to rediculous conclusions.

[RANGER690]

Still makes you a criminal dog killer. Maybe the fourth time you write it, it will sound different.

I don't even own a dog, not belong to a hunt club. It wouldn't even hurt my feelings if dog hunting went away. But I don't kill peoples dogs. After the first time, you could have hid and video taped them dropping dogs on your property. I would think one trespass ticket for each of 30 trucks would be really cool.

I am glad you don't live on my street. I wouldn't trust me kids around someone like you.

Dayton

[RUBLEML]

ITS HARD TO REASON WITH A YANKEE MENTALITY!

[willtill]

RUBLEML originally wrote:
ITS HARD TO REASON WITH A YANKEE MENTALITY!

What a S.T.U.P.I.D. coment.

Kindest Regards,

-Will in Maryland

[RUBLEML]

MOMMA ALWAYS SAID..............................

[rapprunner]

JTB,
I hunt with and without dogs, matter of fact I have 12 beagles that I run deer with. I DO NOT put my dogs out when bow season is going on as I realize peolpe that are bowhunting want to be able to hunt peacefully; however, I still am of the belief that shooting a dog is WRONG, absolutley WRONG, no doubt about it. You said that the hunt club president cursed at you, I agree that was unnecessary, but, we are are only hearing your side of the story. Did you guys cuss them, tell them you would shoot their dogs, etc?

I don't know, looks like we will just have to agree to disagree on this one because we obviously have different opinions.

Ranger,
Are you nuts-----get rid of dog hunting?[grin][grin][grin] What would people like Hillbilly and JTB have to shoot if there were no dogs out there![grin][grin][grin]

Rapprunner

[rapprunner]

willtill originally wrote:
RUBLEML originally wrote:
ITS HARD TO REASON WITH A YANKEE MENTALITY!

What a S.T.U.P.I.D. coment.

Kindest Regards,

-Will in Maryland


What does S.T.U.P.I.D. mean? I am accustomed to words with periods after each letter indicating that it is an acronym is that what it is or did you just mean STUPID? Come on grow a "thick skin". Isn't that what you said some of the folks on this board need to do? Looks like you can dish it out but can't take it. And one more thing----as you told me regarding a different post, and I quote: "this was not aimed at you so what the #$%@ do you care". Do you remember telling me that? Well I sure as hell do----so shut the ________ up!

Rapprunner

[RKOCH]

JTB, The fact is what they did to you was not right ok I will give you that one. But if you ask most people in my age group that is the only way they know to hunt because that is how their parents hunted. I have found most local clubs etc have the same feelings " This is our county, our deer" I had this problem in Southhampton co. I had the best peice of land ever and killed alot of deer on it in bow season till the surronding club found out about it. They told the owner all kinds of BS to get me removed. Then I saw one of them a few weeks latter and he told me. "This is our county and our deer if you don't live here don't hunt here!! And if you think you are going to kill all our deer during bow season think again!! This why we vote out muzzleloading every year." for the most part this is what you will find. They don't care 2 $hits about the hunt it is about how many deer you hang during gun season.

[FishHook321]

JTB, Did you ever think (I doubt it) about getting license numbers, names, etc and obtaining warrants for trespassing for the violators. Like I said in my first post there is legal recourse. They broke the law, but so did you. In fact the law they broke was less than the one you broke.

[Paul Michael]

This is an interesting subject to me as well. I usually don't post much on this board but I wanted to get a little better understanding of this debate.

I little background on my self. I hunt on a private farm in Danville. The area does not allow dogs to be used while deer hunting. My first hunting experiences where with the Oak Tree hunting club in Williamsburg. I killed my first buck when I was 14, in front of dogs. I hunted this way many years an enjoyed it. Although there was a definitely the clique thing going on, as with all clubs, it was definitely a good experience.

Having said that, since hunting in Danville without dogs, I have come to enjoy this much better and prefer it to hunting with dogs.

Now to the topic at hand, what say I buy a piece of land, say 100 acres, in an area that allows dogs to be used. If I post this property, make it clear to all involved that no dogs are allowed to cross the property, inform the local game warden of my desire to hunt without dogs and forbid any person, hunt club etc to run the dogs across the property, for any reason, what options do I have as a land owner to stop this from happening, if the local mentality among the hunt clubs is, "this our deer and our land go hunt somewhere else?" Even to go as far as JTB did and confront the clubs about the problem. If they are so stubborn, and have the mentality that they will do as they please, and give an excuse as fox hunting, what would be the land owners options? Would arresting them for trespassing do the trick? I have a feeling that a trespassing ticket would do nothing but escalate the problem.

Ok, guys, you gave JTB a hard time, lets turn this into a positive to handle the situation. What would be the proper way to handle it, without killing dogs?

PM

[rapprunner]

In all fairness, as I have stated earlier, I don't like to be bothered by dogs during the bow/muzzleloader seasons. Unfortunantley it does happen. Regarding the legalities, and I DO NOT claim to be an expert, it is my understanding that as long as one is in a county that allows for deer running with dogs that if the dogs cross posted property there isn't much the land owner can do, maybe not the best thing in the world but currently it is what it is. It is illegal to drive onto posted property to retrieve dogs, one can walk (with land owner permission) to get their dogs as long as they are not carrying a weapon. With regards to the "fox hunting" ploy, once again unfortunate as it is, not much can be done. One thing I am definatley unsure about is the releasing of dogs onto posted property, I remember reading a proposal last year that would make it illegal to release dogs on posted land, with that I would surmise that currently it isn't illegal---Please correct me if I am wrong---And I am very possibly wrong. I would say that if it isn't currently illegal to release on posted property that it sure should be.

I guess I have done my part to keep this debate alive and probably have provoked quite a few folks, for that I apologize. This will be the last thing I have to say about any of it, we as hunters should do our best to preserve the right to hunt and try as best as possible to get along with one another. We all know that hunting land is getting harder and harder to find and it won't get any easier in the future. Please use good judgement when afield and do your best to treat others as you would like to be treated. The more we bicker and confront each other in hostile ways the more the "anti's" have to fight us.

Good Hunting to ALL---to those that do and do not use dogs.
Regards,
Howard V. aka Rapprunner

[RANGER690]

http://www.ed.gov/news/newsletters/edreview/images/flag.gif

[RKOCH]

rapprunner originally wrote:
In all fairness, as I have stated earlier, I don't like to be bothered by dogs during the bow/muzzleloader seasons. Unfortunantley it does happen. Regarding the legalities, and I DO NOT claim to be an expert, it is my understanding that as long as one is in a county that allows for deer running with dogs that if the dogs cross posted property there isn't much the land owner can do, maybe not the best thing in the world but currently it is what it is. It is illegal to drive onto posted property to retrieve dogs, one can walk (with land owner permission) to get their dogs as long as they are not carrying a weapon. With regards to the "fox hunting" ploy, once again unfortunate as it is, not much can be done. One thing I am definatley unsure about is the releasing of dogs onto posted property, I remember reading a proposal last year that would make it illegal to release dogs on posted land, with that I would surmise that currently it isn't illegal---Please correct me if I am wrong---And I am very possibly wrong. I would say that if it isn't currently illegal to release on posted property that it sure should be.





Actually the law says I don't have to have landowner permission to retrieve dogs on foot posted or not. This one came up last year a landowner pressed charges on me for tresspassing when I walked on his property to get a dog that chased a deer there. Now we were hunting across the street and the deer crossed the road and the dog followed. Well the judge threw it out and told the sheriff to read the law.This is what the code of Va says on the subject.

When the chase begins on other lands, fox hunters and coon hunters may follow their dogs on prohibited lands, and hunters of all other game, when the chase begins on other lands, may go upon prohibited lands to retrieve their dogs, but may not carry firearms or bows and arrows on their persons or hunt any game while thereon. The use of vehicles to retrieve dogs on prohibited lands shall be allowed only with the permission of the landowner or his agent.

The landowner in question was pissed when he found out I could walk all over his property to get the dogs wether I has his permission or not. I am not releasing them to mess your hunt up if the chase ends up there I'm sorry. But as the Judge said dogs do not know propertry lines. They know chase the deer wherever it goes. As far as the law goes if my dogs are chasing a deer on you property that came from somewhere else ands the dogs just followed then as a landowner there is nothing legally you can do no law was broken. No matter your intent not to hunt with dogs. If someone goes on your place and releases them then you have a case but that is about it. But if the dogs are there as a result of a legal hunt then you pretty much have no recourse.

[jschline]

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We,re not allowed to use dogs in MD so the issue is hardly raised but after reading the post, some considerations should be made.

I am not against using dogs, to each his own, and I understand its a whole other experience but one must consider those who are opposed and for.

If one uses dogs as a way to tresspass, to push deer from a specific peice of property, otherwise he has no permission to be on then its wrong and should be considered.

If in the course of the hunt the dogs are placed in a more appropriate area, then the dogs happen accross the others land well, dogs do not know property boundries and that's part of the hunt and the others that hunt in those area that permit dogs can only lobby against it in that area if opposed. If its legal then expect it, dogs will eventually come onto your property. They may push you a deer you may have never seen or it might scare away your shot-its 50/50.

Should it be done durring bow season??, that's something else to lobby about. I would not want any part of running dogs durring any other season than firearms, even then maybe there should be a seperate season for the dog hunters.

Dogs are a big part of hunting for many people, it goes back a long way, just like hunting. Things have certainly changed through out the years such as the money to purchase land and the large lease amounts. People that oppose dogs and have payed their dues might not want your dogs included in their purchase, but once again the dog issue should have been considered when purchasing or leasing land in certain areas.

In all cases, you should be considerate of all types of hunters and do your best to be a good neighbor.

[ketch69]

I wanna know where you can find some dogs that can read posted signs so I can get me some so you guys will stop crying! Dog hunting is a tradition that has been carried on in this area for many,many years. If it bothers you that bad when they run thru your property then lease west of the Blue Ridge and let the guys that have hunted this way for years have at it. One more thing, if my dogs were running a big buck that came thru your property you would let it go since dogs were running it right.

Its just something thats gonna happen. If they are doing it to intentionally ruin your hunt you still can't shoot the dogs.


DEAN who had dogs run thru the peice he was hunting in Surry today and saw 4 deer withing the next hour.

[Paul Michael]

Nobody is crying about anything since my last post, I just wanted to have an intelligent conversation to try and appease everyone concerned, perhaps find an amicable solution to the problem. It seems to me that although the law may be on the side on the dogs at this point, and its “tradition,” perhaps its time to change the law.

It’s my opinion, that if your property is posted for the other “people” to read and its clear to everyone involved that the owner does not want any person or dogs across their property, then if the owner catches dogs on the property, the dogs could be impounded by the game warden and the dog owners would have to pay a fine for trespassing. It would be the dog owner’s responsibility to keep their dogs off the properties of others, period.

I can tell you what is going to happen. Dogs are going to run across the property of an individual that has some clout, then the law will be changed. All its going to take is onetime and the right individual to get it going.

As I stated above, I don’t have any problems with either way of hunting. But I do feel that people need to be considerate of others and their wishes. Not to mention that it would help with the public perception of hunters. If I was a founder of a hunt club, I would definitely do what ever it took to appease the neighbors. It just makes good common sense, who knows, maybe that landowner who won’t allow any hunting, dogs or anything else on the property may let you hunt every once in a while.

Just my two cents.

PM

[RKOCH]

Please explain to me how to keep a deer dog from running across posted property when in pursuit of the game it was trained to hunt????? Even when the chase began on legal lands?? Are you infering that a dog owner can somehow train his dogs to stop chasing a deer at the property line. If so that is the funniest thing I have ever heard of. Get relistic if one releases them on a persons property then ok I see a problem but if it is because of a legal chase and that is where the dog went quit crying.

[ketch69]

RKOCH......It's kinda scary that we think alike sometimes.

And to the other guy. I wasn't saying you were crying. The ones it was directed at know who they are. As far as someone with clout or money getting the law changed, I don't think so. Running hounds in Southside Virginia has been around a long time and will be around a lot longer.


DEAN

[Sea-Ya]

I can't wait for Nov. 19th to turn my dogs out.[grin]

[RUBLEML]

WHY WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RUBLEML]

WHY WAIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! OOOPS DOUBLE POST!

[little bubba]

Jeff,
You don't have to wait till Nov. 19th. Law says you can run your fox hounds this time of year. All you have to do is jack up the tails and operate the switch from Deer to Fox. I'm not sure what type of dogs you have, but with mine. Switch to the left is Deer. Switch to the right is Fox. Enjoy you will be perfectly legal.
Bubba[angel][angel][angel]

[Bay Bob]

It would seem to me that five strands of electric fence wire, the lower three about 6 inches apart, and about six inches off the ground, and the top strands about a foot apart should deter the dogs from entering your property.

Set the fence charger in the "weed cutting mode" and my guess is the dogs will quickly learn to stay away from your fenceline.

Now if the dog gets zapped once or twice while running deer it might just break him of running deer - - - -

I would advise all of my neighbors, and give notice to the local dog clubs. I suspect they would give you a wide berth !

Sure would not want to ruin a good dog !

Back when I had a small farm I fenced the entire boundary with "hog wire" for that very reason.

Stray cats were shot on sight - - - they are hell on the quail population.

I also kept a half a dozen hava-heart traps baited with fish scraps out constantly, for times when I was not out and about.

Small furbearers were dispatched on the spot and cats were transported to the pound !

BW
BB

[RAYMOND RHODES]

I have waited for a long time for BOB"S response.

Dogs, cats and small fur bearing animals will be shot!!!!!!!!!!

Gun, Bow, knife or the right snare...............

I WLL SAY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN WAIT ON OTHERS TO FEED YOU!!!!!!!!![excited]

[ketch69]

BB

You need to get closer to the ground and switch to chicken wire as I run beagles for deer.


DEAN

[RUBLEML]

IF THEY ARE HOT ON A DEER,THEY WONT SLOW DOWN A BIT FOR ELECTRI FENCE!WE JUMPED TWO NICE BUCKS BEHIND MY FATHER-IN-LAWS COW PASTURE AND THE DOGS DIDNT EVEN GIVE IT A SECOND THOUGHT!I KNOW IT DIDNT FEEL TO GOOD(AS A COUPLE OF YELPS WERE OVER-HEARD )BUT THEY KEPT ON CHUNKING.

[Bay Bob]

RAYMOND RHODES originally wrote:
I have waited for a long time for BOB"S response.

Dogs, cats and small fur bearing animals will be shot!!!!!!!!!!

Gun, Bow, knife or the right snare...............

I WLL SAY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN WAIT ON OTHERS TO FEED YOU!!!!!!!!![excited]


Tank traps ! ! ! We need tank traps and acres of concertina wire to keep out them "commie dogs " [grin] [grin] [grin]

or simply move to a state or county (to hunt or live) where running deer with dogs is not permitted.

I believe that in some states (Pennsylvania I think !) it is legal to shoot dogs that are chasing deer.

Now before you start bashing me - - - I have hunted deer with dogs, and it is great fun - - - almost as much as rabbits behind beagles - - - but you have to "fit in with the locals" whereever you go.

And having lived in over a dozen states I have seen it all, and it is all good, just different [wink] [wink] [wink]

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[Bay Bob]

RAYMOND RHODES originally wrote:
I have waited for a long time for BOB"S response.

Dogs, cats and small fur bearing animals will be shot!!!!!!!!!!

Gun, Bow, knife or the right snare...............

I WLL SAY GO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

YOU CAN WAIT ON OTHERS TO FEED YOU!!!!!!!!![excited]


Tank traps ! ! ! We need tank traps and acres of concertina wire to keep out them "commie dogs " [grin] [grin] [grin]

or simply move to a state or county (to hunt or live) where running deer with dogs is not permitted.

I believe that in some states (Pennsylvania I think !) it is legal to shoot dogs that are chasing deer.

Now before you start bashing me - - - I have hunted deer with dogs, and it is great fun - - - almost as much as rabbits behind beagles - - - but you have to "fit in with the locals" wherever you go.

And having lived in over a dozen states I have seen it all, and it is all good, just different [wink] [wink] [wink]

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