Brandon - Will you post your PSCR flyover results please?

[paxfish]

Hi Brandon,

We are all interested to see your data and conclusions from your pre-season flyovers of the bay. Will you publish that here for us?

Thanks,

[B-Faithful]

cant wait to see mrfss wave 1 too... from what i saw, participation was way down, at least for trollers. They lowered the efficiency (opportunity to catch a fish) of trolling to level that detered people from investing in fishing.

I know I have a buddy who lives in frederick MD who didnt participate like he had in the past citing that the cost to tow his boat from frederick md to SPSP, plus fuel in the boat, food, etc. wasnt worth the effort due to slow reports and the gear restrictions that further lowered his chances to encounter a fish.

[2 Jims]

I wanna see 'em too.

Jim

[perrywater1]

me too

[reeltor]

VERY typical view of Sandy Pt State Park ramps during the C/R season. I was surprised how little boat traffic there was.

[5th Tuition]

Count me among the "interested"!!!! 5th (Marty)

[5th Tuition]

I'd hate to see a thread this significant "lost" to inactivity.
BTT

[27 sailfish]

I fished from Sandy point on April 11th - the Sunday before opening day.
Weather was perfect yet there was no more then about 25 trailers there.

IMHO - early C/R was never crowded - or the problem.

[troutman1]

I launched from Sandy Point for my dry run the last week in March. There was one other trailer in the lot when I launched on an absolutely perfect day for C&R. We caught three fish in an hour and cruised on flat calm water down to TP/BP and back.

I'm with everyone........C&R got waaaaayyy to much press........

[Polkster]

I have to agree with Skip and Karma -how can C&R be the reason for less fish? If people are throwing them back, the fish or at least most of them are still in the water to spawn and be around for future people to catch again. If you catch and keep, the fish is out of the system forever. Sorry if I am starting a debate. I am looking forward to Brandon's photos as well.

[philk999]

Inquirying minds want to know what your flyover showed. Please give up the details.

[Hunter]

There just were not enough boats out there to take pictures of during the preseason. I would venture an estimate (about as good as DNR's guess, or "we have heard" figures) that this year's effort with PSCR was reduced by 90%. So, were the new restrictions really that onerous? It would have been nice to know if the fish really were here early. Also, a 6-rod spread (pulling barbless hooked lures) for a troller is like a LTJer being allowed to take only one rod and one lure in the boat; it'll work, but sometimes it is just not worth it.....Don

[goose70]

There just were not enough boats out there to take pictures of during the preseason. I would venture an estimate (about as good as DNR's guess, or "we have heard" figures) that this year's effort with PSCR was reduced by 90%. So, were the new restrictions really that onerous? It would have been nice to know if the fish really were here early. Also, a 6-rod spread (pulling barbless hooked lures) for a troller is like a LTJer being allowed to take only one rod and one lure in the boat; it'll work, but sometimes it is just not worth it.....Don

I disagree regarding the six-rod spread regulation. I doubt that it deterred more than five people from pre-season fishing, if that. Even among those who complained about it, a six-rod spread is still a lot of rods....two more than most people used well into the 80s and early 90s. Porcupine trolling boats are a relatively recent phenomenon. I am still on the fence about whether the six rod spread restriction is necessary, nor do I think that focusing all regs just on trollers (or preseason C&R) is wise policy, but we as recs have a serious problem if we are deterred from striper fishing simply because we cannot troll more than six rods on a boat.

If C&R numbers were down at all, two factors seem like much more likely candidates: (1) the economy and (2) reports of lackluster striper action. Of course, the possibility also exists that pre-season C&R never attracted very many participants, at least relative to what the kill season attracts. Maybe this year was normal.

[B-Faithful]

Goose, people will put more effort into fishing if there is greater efficiency. Efficiency is ones chances/opportunity of catching a fish. Given that the majority in the main stem of the bay in open water enjoy trolling and do so with multiple rods is because fishing as such creates a tollerable chance of catching a fish. When that efficiency has been reduced, it will deter people from putting the effort and expense into fishing. It is plain and simple. This is why fishing particular areas like the flats and rips are popular to those fishing other methods. It is because they are areas that are known to hold fish giving those anglers greater efficiency and opportunity to catch a fish. Limiting rods without the known level of efficiency for trollers would be like banning fishing at WWDs, the flats, etc. to other fishermen as it would be aimed at reducing their efficiency. Lets face it, even during the trophy season DNR sruveys show that recreational anglers only catch less than one fish per 3 angler trips when there are no rod restrictions. What does that take ones opportunity to when gear is restricted? Would you spend hundreds of dollars to fish with a less than one in three trips chance of catching a fish?

You state thata IF catch and release numbers were down... That is a statisic that DNR will never know as they didnt have numbers from before they implimented regulations that targeted the efficiency of a popular method of fishing.

I am also not sure one could argue if the economy created a reduction in preseason fishermen without seeing if there has been a reduction in the Trophy season. One would think that if if trips were down due to economic reasons that it would be also seen in the trophy season.

Catch and keep always attracts more anglers. That has always been clearly visable even in previous years before catch and release regulations were put in place.

[tksmitty]

The economy has sucked for 4 or 5 years right?

[goose70]

I agree with your last three paragraphs. I also agree with the efficiency justification, but only to a point. I have no data to back me up, so my opinion is no more valid than that of anyone else, but I have a hard time believing that trolling 6 rods (up tp twelve baits) does not provide a reasonable opportunity to catch fish. It is more rods than I observed on most trolling boats up until the last 5-10 years. Again, I'm not sure that it's an issue worth regulating, but I have a hard time imagining that someone who is otherwise inclined to fish decides against it because they cannot troll with more than 6 rods. This seems particularly true for the C&R season, where a large number of those fishing are LTJ'ing rather than trolling, anyway.

The bottom line for why I think this point even matters is that I suspect that C&R pressure was most likely low this year because it has always been low in the Chesapeake. Even very onerous DNR regs, had they been enacted, would not have had much impact, since there was little C&R fishing pressure to impact in the first place. How many folks even have their boat ready to use in Feb, March and early April, let alone choose to go out in what is typically cold, iffy weather? DNR was/is barking up the wrong tree.

[goose70]

The economy has sucked for 4 or 5 years right?

Wrong. At least not with respect to credit availability and home equity -- two important drivers of fishing expenditures, I suspect.

[tksmitty]

Wrong. At least not with respect to credit availability and home equity -- two important drivers of fishing expenditures, I suspect.

I'm pretty sure that has sucked for at least 3 years. With respect to money and fishing I would say un-employment probably is a bigger factor than the overall economy specifically and un-employment has been on the slide for longer than that. Either way I don't think either has much bearing on PSCR.

There are probably more people who didn't fish PSCR because they didn't want to grind their barbs down on $15 parachute rigs or pull the stinger hooks out than people who were concerned about needing more than 6 rods.....just my opinion....it's worth what you paid for it.

[B-Faithful]

According to DNR, there were more rec trips taken last spring than in 2008. There was also an increase in fishing license sales for 2009. The credit markets were down and unemployment was higher in 2009 over 2008.

Goose, I dont think 6 rods with tandem rigs equates to the same as 12 rods with solo chutes. I view tandems like I do umbrellas. They just increase your presentation but dont necessarily catch more fish. I troll one side of my boat all solos baits and the other side all tandems. I dont catch more fish on the tadem side despite more baits. They do increase the presentation and carry more weight so they troll more deeply in the water. As you know one of the objects of trolling to increase the odds of catching is to cover the water column. Again, DNRs own statistics show that only one fish for over 3 angler trips are caught during the trophy season without gear restriotions. I would be curious to know what level of efficiency they were attempting to reach during preseason catch and release, specifically on those who enjoy trolling.

[goose70]

I may have steered this discussion too far away from where I was trying to go. The issue of this thread is whether Brandon (or anyone) gathered any data about spring C&R participation. Some then suggested that this year may have had fewer participants. One reason cited for fewer participants was gear restrictions.

My response is that I doubt gear restrictions accounted for any lower participation, simply because the gear restrictions do not amount to enough of a handicap to keep people from fishing. If anything caused a lower participation this spring, it was likely some broader factor such as the economy or poor catch reports. But I also suspect that this spring may not have been that unusual, after all. Participation only seems low because, now that we’re really focusing on the issue, we realize that less folks participate in Spring C&R than some may have expected.

So, the bottom line is that I think we agree that the DNR’s focus on spring C&R was misplaced, especially when that focus seems to have occurred at the exclusion of addressing more serious issues facing the fishery.

[jumbo1]

There were no doubt less boats this year for C?R...saw it first hand...I actually trolled this past Wed in the am for a little while..and I only use 8 rods...
I agree with Goose...I would say the economy was the biggest factor...Don as far as comparing 6 trolling rods PSCR to a LTJer only taking 1 rod...thats how many we take.....1 lure...1 rod......:high5:

I mean honestly if trolling is your passion...and you can only troll 6 rods PSCR than go...fish anyway...not saying I support it but if thats the only way you 're allowed to fish I would run with it....

[5th Tuition]

Still waiting for those photo's and conclusions!!!!
Actually, taking photo's of the trailers at concentrated places like Sandy Point, Chesapeake Beach, and PLO would be a good idea. Probably better than trying to spot boats over the whole bay. I know C/R effort was down; I'd just like a little confirmation.
5th (Marty)

[perrywater1]

still waiting for pictures

[Hunter]

Don as far as comparing 6 trolling rods PSCR to a LTJer only taking 1 rod...thats how many we take.....1 lure...1 rod......:high5:
Jamie - You might fish with only one lure and one rod at a time, but do you not switch out jig heads, plastic type/color, or rod as conditions change? A successful troller has to cover the water column with a selection of lures and 6 rods is a waste of time when the conditions are not optimal.

Goose - I fished preseason both this year and last and I swear I saw at least 90% fewer boats on the water and trailers parked at Sandy Point this preseason. And as to the economy, I feel most of us were breathing a little easier this year when we took a look at our retirement portfolios seeing how the Dow was up 45% from March 30, 2009 to March 30, 2010. The restrictions were onerous. The lion's share of the restrictions unfairly targeted only the trollers and there was no science to back-up the DNR. They do not even have a baseline to scientifically evaluate how effective the restrictions were. But "I have heard" that effort was severely affected....Don

And I really don't think any pictures are going to show because it might help our cause to have the misplaced PSCR restrictions rolled back...Don

[Baldzilla 2.0]

Jamie - You might fish with only one lure and one rod at a time, but do you not switch out jig heads, plastic type/color, or rod as conditions change? A successful troller has to cover the water column with a selection of lures and 6 rods is a waste of time when the conditions are not optimal. Don

(FIRST OF DON THIS IS NOT TARGETED AT YOU SPECIFICALLY, GOTTA PUT A DISCLAIMER IN EVERY POST NOW A DAYS)

The comparison is apples to oranges...you can still change lures when you troll, just like you can when you jig... I think that was Jamies point, not really a good comparison...there is no way to compare the rod restrictions trolling to jigging...they made it a little harder, it sucks, I was pissed when it came out, I moved on...but this jigging vs trolling comparison that keeps coming up pisses me off day in and day out (and I do both), it is only going to cause issues like we had before...noone wants to post reports about pre season or trophy season because they don't want "the man" monitoring the board to use it against them, what do you think they will do with all this trollers vs jiggers banter...they are gonna see the divide and further separate the two and divide the recs along fishing method lines... if everyone believes we should really stand together as so many keep saying, then we all need to stop bringing up other fishing methods when we complain about restrictions placed on our specific method

everyone has gotta realize, you aren't going to see the pictures if the pictures don't present the view SFAC, Brandon or anyone else does not want them to present...you'll see the pictures if they show a lot of boats, and that's it...I fished all last preseason too, and very rarely were there many boats at SPSP. Big surprise, there were not many boats this year...but I highly doubt 90% of people didn't fish the pre season because they had to crimp down a few barbs and remove a few stingers...there were not that many people fishing pre season last year, or the year before, or the year before, so it makes sense there were not many people fishing this year...on the other hand, certain jigging spots were more crowded than I've seen them in 5 years...
and
I fished the entire preseason up to April 5th...I jigged mostly, but I trolled a good bit with 6 rods I had absolutely no problem catching fish the few times I trolled...when I trolled, would I like to have trolled more rods, yes...but as Jamie said, we should enjoy fishing, no matter how we fish, even with restrictions. Do you fish only to reel fish in, or to enjoy your time on the water, hanging out with friends, etc? Just enjoy it, fight the fight when you can at meetings, et. If these organizations have made up their minds they are going restrict fishing, they are going to do it...manipulate data, hide photos to the contrary, etc...

That is my perception; that they are manipulating and massaging data to fit the end result they desire...that people are in other peoples pockets, that this is all about money and not conservation, and with money and politics behind them, we are going to lose, at least a little bit...BUT us bitching at each other (not that you were bitching Don) and sniping, and comparing fishing methods, is not going to solve anything...

we all need to just show up at the meetings and be done with it...use the hard and fast data we have. For example, crappy spring that has been going on...data here on a message board says so...organizations that want to shut us down say
1.) they are sandbagging and posting low numbers to lull us into a sense of security (how do I know, I've heard them say it)
2.) see they killed all the pre spawn fish last year and so there are non this year (how do I know, I've heard it)
3.) any other assanine excuse they want to make they'll still get their desired result because they have power and politics and we don't

show up at the meetings, plead your case, and then be pissed off when it doesnt go our way...but enjoy the fishing we have, and fight to keep it...

I was out 9 hours today...I wont' post a report, for the same reason I have not posted reports in 18 months, they will be used against me, someone will always have a problem with it, people will want to know exact spots, someone will bitch if I give someone else my exact spot, someone will call me a dick if I don't give out my exact spot...and so on and so forth..

PS Everyone should concentrate your efforts on the federal side, the menhaden netting, Omega, lack of bait...

[Aquasport]

Here's my 2 cents....I didn't fish PSCR because of the rod, stinger and barb restrictions. I felt it just wasn't worth spending all that money on gas with significantly limited chances of catching fish (I normally run a 16 rod spread). In that regard, I believe the new rules are what limited the amount of boats/fisherman that participated in the PSCR.

[B-Faithful]

One thing that hasnt been discussed are the amount of "fishable" days too. I cannot remember how the preseason spring went and how many days could be deemed "fishable". My bet is that we see recreational angler trips WAY down this year for the trophy season over last year as DNR claimed an increase in "fishable" days last trophy season. This year opening weekend had small craft advisories all weekend and we have the same this weekend. Weather has seemed to keep many people off the water during at least half of the busiest days of the week for recreational fishing this season so far..

The decrease in preseason participation could be due to several things:
1. economy
2. fishable days
3. lack-luster fishing / lack of reports this year
4. gear restrictions that target the efficiency of a popular form of fishing on the bay

I think it is all of the above. However, when gear restrictions target the efficiency of some anglers when DNRs own statistics note that an angler on average only catches less than 1 fish per 3 trips taken when gear restrictions that target efficiency are not implace, they have to know that the restrictions will take people off the water. I know I will be requesting that the restrictions that go beyond reducing mortality and target the efficiency of some anglers be removed.

[Blast n Cast]

Most people I know who attempted PSCR reported that they were stopped by the NERPS nearly every time they fished. They had to wind up, bring in their gear and allow the DNR to board. Based upon the hassle factor I bagged it, an chalked it up to the "juice not being worth the squeeze."

[Old Hat]

efficiency .....what a load of crap....try precision my friend!!

I didn't go out pre season as much in the past probably due to the weather and work. But I did notice very few boats out there and minimal effort despite good fishing.

[2 Jims]

The answer is.......................NO.

The flyover pics do not show the data needed. The pics will show up after the data minupulation coresponds to the desired results involved.

Wonder why this keeps going????? No pics??????

How can we bend, justify, etc. the BS we have impossed?....we can't...bend them some more.

I'm sure the less than 1% of the mortality from you rotten PSCR's, due to a decline in 75% of y'all going out during PSCR, killed 140% of the fish.

Until those numbers can be justified, you will hear nothing.

Jim

[paxfish]

Easy boys. The request was for Brandon to post results that he told us he'd be gathering.

Brandon - It would be smart to at least respond to the post and tell us the status. As you can see, the conjecture is likely much worse than the reality.

If your data supports your position, great. Show it to us and tell us why you think so. If the data you gathered does not support your position last fall, that's fine.

Either way, it's time to man up!

[jumbo1]

Most people I know who attempted PSCR reported that they were stopped by the NERPS nearly every time they fished. They had to wind up, bring in their gear and allow the DNR to board. Based upon the hassle factor I bagged it, an chalked it up to the "juice not being worth the squeeze."

Thats the first I've heard of that...I fished Pre-Season 25+ times and never saw 1 DNR boat..was boarded by CG once...there were never more than a handful of boats trolling...

[27 sailfish]

Cast and blast - Where were your buddies fishing ? Reason I ask - no one I've talked to was checked for 6 rods / barbless hooks.
I do not see the big deal if they were - reeling in 6 lines does not take long - plus good to check them now/then anyway.


I hope one day the truth of the entire PSCR comes out. Then it will all make sense to everyone.
IMHO - It had nothing to do with C/R fishing.
Look what it did - shut down a lot of great fishing info being shared.
The BS about being concerned if even 1 roe ladden Rock died or was stressed and would not spawn is tough to believe - when it was known huge numbers of roe ladden Rock were being poached off Va and NC.
But that slaughter was not allowed to be brought up - HMMMM.

[reeltor]

I haven't been stopped at all this year but did see some folks questioning anglers at the Solomons ramp a few times.
I'd really like to know if the effort to take photo's existed.

[Rdooms2347]

Couldnt have said it better myself . 36 post and not one reply Is someone hiding something ?
Easy boys. The request was for Brandon to post results that he told us he'd be gathering.

Brandon - It would be smart to at least respond to the post and tell us the status. As you can see, the conjecture is likely much worse than the reality.

If your data supports your position, great. Show it to us and tell us why you think so. If the data you gathered does not support your position last fall, that's fine.

Either way, it's time to man up!

[5th Tuition]

I only fished four times during the preseason and I got checked on three of the trips by DNR, but they seemed more concerned about safety equiptment, each time they asked if I caught anything and if I had fish on the boat, I said no and told them they could check if they want but they declined
I think Brandon is smart for not replying to this thread, I wish I could have that kind of restraint when people attack me..C&R was never banned like some people were trying to make everyone beleive, all we got was a few minor restrictions that will save thousands (maybe ever millions) of fish from needlessly dying. most of the restrictions were things people should of been doing already anyway

Zam; it's amazing what a good grasp you have on any subject discussed on this board. However, you are wrong in this instance. I was at the meetings, every one. The MCBA had the intent to shut down the PSCR. Our White knight (bun intended) proposed a compromise of shutting the PSCR down to only three days a week. It's true, the final restrictions were not that bad (I still have a problem with rod limits). But; it's only through the diligence of several vocal voices, that we didn't get day restrictions. These same people are watching to see that no further restrictions are imposed without quanified data. We have all seen how DNR is willing to make significant changes based soley on antidotal evidence and "concerns they have heard".
5th (Marty)

[hogan]

pics or it didnt happen

[Brandon]

Hey Gang

Sorry I did not catch this thread earlier, truthfully I did not see it until twenty minutes ago. Why you might ask? Well because I have been buried in work and over the weekend was working on the site itself to fix some speed issues, add some things etc...

Paxfish,

I appreciate you bringing this to my attention. First, let me set the record straight about what I believe about fisheries management. I believe it should be based on a combination of common sense and science, sometimes one or the other makes sense, sometimes both together.

I also believe in preventative fisheries management practices, not crisis fisheries management practices as we have done over the last 100 years. I believe that crisis fisheries management is why we find ourselves in the situation of where we are today, dwindling fish populations. (yes water quality has a lot to do with it as well in some cases, in some cases not). Sometimes by the time you have the "science" it's too late. Case in point look at the menhaden issue in the bay, guess who is calling for "science" and until then it's status quo. Who just got another extension to keep fishing in the bay after being given five years to get the "science". By the time we get the "science" the stripers, blues and other fish will have nothing to eat and then what? Well we'll have the science and no fish....how much sense does that make...really? This an just on illustration why I believe science alone does not work by itself.

Second, for anyone to suggest that I am afraid to admit when I am wrong or make a mistake is only coming from people who do not know me. Sure I have an ego, as an entrepreneur you need one, the odds are against you and you need to believe you can do things you're not sure you can do. And I do not like to be wrong, I work hard at all that I do and to be wrong I take hard because it means that I did not do my homework or made a bad decision. At the same time, I admit when I wrong and learn from my mistakes. To at all suggest that my character would try to run and hide from something is wrong, talk to anyone that truly knows me and can comment on my character and you'll find evidence to support what I am saying. If it sounds like I took the comments personally I did, they are personal. Can I take the shots, sure, that's what happens when you are in the public eye, its just the way it is. I just wanted to comment on it.

I really pushed DNR to do the studies, those that were at the hearings heard that. Those who worked on it knew I pushed off the record as well. If you were at a recent SPAC meeting you heard me ask a follow up question about it on the record. The answer I got for the fly overs were, 1) cost prohibitive , 2) some problems with the "science". Other issues are more important to spend the money available. Why we relied on them for the Susquehanna Flats and could not apply them here I do not know.

When I pushed and looked into a post release C&R striped bass and if it still spawns, the truth is the cost would very high and we probably would never get a real answer. It's almost impossible. We could show the fish go to the spawning grounds, but not be able to tell if the eggs were OK or defective because they mix with other fish's eggs, so there really is no way to tag the eggs and tell whose become real fish and whose do not.

I still do think we should do a study on C&R trolling to understand survival rates best we can. I'll continue to push for that. Will it happen, I am not sure, but I'll try. It would be good information to have in the absence of nothing.

Long and short of it the DNR at this point in time what I understand is not going to do any further studies other then the currently available data. Should you take it as DNR does not care, no. There is only so much money and so many resources. Can you or I be disappointed with the inability to study it, yes. Am I, yes.

I did fly the last few months when I was home, understand that I only fly on safe days and some of the flights were part of a project I am helping the Smithsonian with concerning invasive aquatic grass species which limited the flight to certain parts of the bay. Also realize I do not fly all day long up and down the bay, but rather most flights last 1-3hrs. In addition, I was gone a lot since January traveling doing of all crazy wild things as fishing. Taking all that into consideration my personal observations were that there were not that many people fishing (trolling) in the C&R season. On a few really nice days when I thought I would see a lot of boats out there, I saw few. One day I remember specifically I think a week before the trophy season opened and took pics I witnessed only two boats trolling above the bay bridge which surprised me. My observations are just mine.

Do I still believe in the regulations that we ended up with. Yes. Why? Because I think that we as C&R anglers get to fish 52 weeks a year. To have some sensible regulations put into place during a time of year when we have a very high concentration of female spawning striped bass in one area that is responsible for 75% or more of the striped bass along the whole east coast just makes sense. Is C&R better then C&K, I am not sure I would any longer characterize it as better or worse. Does C&R kill less fish, yes, of course. Does it still kill fish, yes it does. Would I rather be safe then sorry in making sure released fish spawn yes, as explained I opt on the side of being conservative vs aggressive in fisheries management. Do I think we need a days restriction, I am not sure, what I do know is when it all came up it did not make sense to me close it down entirely, so some days was better then none in my mind. Does limiting days statistically decrease effort better then limiting rods, yes. Is the rods restriction enough, maybe.

As for barbless hooks and such, that just make sense to do and is something I do for the most part in my fishing.

This was never about picking on trollers or anything like that. It was about the magnitude of the effort which leans towards more trollers in the C&R then light tackle fly anglers. I can probably count on fingers and toes the fly guys that fish (besides the Susquehanna Flats) the season. Light tackle there are more, but probably still not that many. Most anglers troll in our waters, it's effective and it produces catches, nothing wrong with it and its popular. Do I think light tackle guys and fly guys should smash their barbs, yes. Does limiting rods come into play, well not unless someone figures out how to light tackle jig/cast more then six rods at once. When someone does I want to see it.

In my thinking this was not ever about is C&R better then C&K or should be always be encouraging anglers to C&R. That's a personal choice if you want to practice C&R or not and if you want to push that agenda. C&K is fine and we can have it in our fisheries as long as we manage our fisheries effectively. What this was all about to me was about having a very high concentration of female spawning striped bass in one concentrated area and fishing on them in a way that could potentially effect their spawning efforts. I understand that this stance may effect other peoples agenda like that w should always be encouraging C&R, it effects the access and opportunity stance, and other people's/groups agendas. That is going to happen with every thing that comes up. You stand up for what you believe, I respect that.

At the end of the day when it comes to what I believe you can count on one thing, I will do what I think is right to make sure we all have fish for the future so I can feel good about leaving this earth and the marine environment a little better then when I came into the world. Past generations have not done this and I think that's not only selfish and shortsighted, but irresponsible. I want to fish and keep being able to fish so I take a long term view and believe we need a change from past crisis fisheries management to a more conservative common sense approach.

Thanks

Brandon

[Brandon]

One last thing about me posting fishing reports. I made a conscious effort over the last year or two to not post all my fishing reports for local waters. Why? Not for some agenda item other then I do not want Tidal Fish to become the Brandon fishing show. I do fish a lot and I love it, love showing off some pics and doing a little bragging like the next person. But I did not want it to become a Brandon show and its been good for the health of the place. There are a lot of great anglers out there that have a lot to contribute, we've seen that and its great. So, I did not get run off. As for my pre trophy season C&R fishing, honestly I fished maybe twice and it was short and I did not have much luck fly fishing and the other time was the power plant which was so so. All the other time I was away on travel which I owe some reports to the board from places like South America, Florida, and the Bahamas. When I have been home I really have had so much work and do things like fly and road bike that I simply did not fish.

Once I get my new rig sometime soon I will start posting local fishing reports again.

Brandon

[B-Faithful]

This was never about picking on trollers or anything like that. It was about the magnitude of the effort which leans towards more trollers in the C&R then light tackle fly anglers. I can probably count on fingers and toes the fly guys that fish (besides the Susquehanna Flats) the season. Light tackle there are more, but probably still not that many. Most anglers troll in our waters, it's effective and it produces catches, nothing wrong with it and its popular. Do I think light tackle guys and fly guys should smash their barbs, yes. Does limiting rods come into play, well not unless someone figures out how to light tackle jig/cast more then six rods at once. When someone does I want to see it.



Here is one of the roots of our different perspective and what I perceive is a bias against trollers. I believe your numbers in participation are anecdotal with no known facts. I believe the numbers or trollers is higher once the season opens and it is evident. however during the preseason, I would bet the numbers are close in regards to level of participation (I did both this winter even landing fish over 40" on light gear). The limiting of effort and efficiency that was targeted towards trollers would be like banning areas like the rips and other WWDs to light tackle guys (or even limiting the number of casts in a day). Your bias comes into play thinking that it is about rods. however it is about efficiency and the opportunity to land a fish. It is why people flock to areas of structure, current, temperature changes to catch fish while light tackle fishing. Would I troll the rips with more than 6 rods? No. Would I troll the open waters of the bay in the channel with more than 6 rods? yes. Would I light tackle jig in 80' of water in the channel (without concentrated marks on the sounder)? no because the level of efficiency is not there to warrant the effort. Bottom line is that the level of efficiency of one method of fishing was targeted without just means. While you can point to a few big number fish days posted by trollers in 2009 during the preseason, it was not the norm and there are some even bigger number fish days posted by some light tackle guys. (I have seen reports of over 100 fish caught in a day here on TF.. these are rare just like the big number days but a few trollers and we shouldnt be regulating based on such rare reports) As I have stated on TF before, without the preseason efficiency restrictions on trollers, DNR cites that one fish is caught for every 3-5 angler trips on average. What was DNR's purpose in targeting efficiency of trollers? Based on what they know of the trophy season, what level of efficiency was their targeted goal? One fish for every 5-7 angler trips? How are they measuring the success of the new efficiency reducing regulations ?

I will say that the efficiency restrictions did not deter me from fishing and I was grateful to still have access and opportunity to catch a fish. We still were able to enjoy our time on the beautiful Chesapeake Bay and were fortunate to encounter a few fish. My son even landed his biggest fish to date two weeks before the season hit. However I live close to where i fish and my expendature per trips is far less than many others. I will also note that I made sure I had smaller crews that didnt exceed a total of 2-3 people (including myself) to give better odds of everyone being able to catch a fish. Without such efficiency restrictions, I would often have crews of 4, 5 or even 6 people total. This means less travel fuel used by my crew, less money spent a Wawa by my crew, less money spent on tackle, less people enjoyed the use of our public natural resource.

[Brandon]

Greg,

We do limit access to areas where there are striped bass, i.e. we limit striped bass fishing many of the tributaries of the bay as well as an area in the northern part of the bay. I agree with what you said there are more trollers during the Trophy season then in the pre trophy C&R season. If you think the numbers are closer to equal of light tackle to trolling anglers in the pre trophy C&R season I am open to the feasibility of that statement, but neither you nor I have any info to go on so its just our opinion on the things we see.

I am not really clear about your whole efficiency argument. I am a light tackle guy, I will jig in 80 feet of water if I think I have a chance, in fact I'll fly fish. You'll find guys like Shawn K, Jumbo, Wild Bill and other light tackle guys who will do the same. It's not necessarily to some guys about efficiency, its about the challenge. I understand that your personal approach to fishing is all about efficiency, but not everyone approaches it like that. Some light tackle guys are not going to troll because its more "efficient" and some trollers are not going to light tackle fish when light tackle fishing may be more "efficient". It's personal preference which is fine.

I might also say that the level of magnitude or effort did bring the topic up, but I think what transpired was also an opportunity to take a look at how could some regulations be put into place to be more responsible anglers during a spawning time of year. Looking back maybe we should have included barbless hooks for all anglers, should we do that in the future, maybe. I'm open to that discussion and it seems as if it has valid points.

As for rod restrictions, we could apply it to light tackle anglers if it made it appear we were not being bias, but in practical terms I think we know light tackle guys never fish six rods jigging at once for the fact that they can not.

I know to protect the access and opportunity stance you have you have to fight this or any thing that starts to encroach on that view point. But at some point we need to do some things that protect the fish to make sure we have some for the future not just in our life time but future generations. Living with pinched barbs and rod restrictions for trolling, circle hooks for bait fishing, and other similar types things I do not think are a bad thing. It helps the fish, still allows anglers to have some fish, and hopefully reduces mortality. If anyone does not agree, I respect that, but I believe it. I am open to being convinced otherwise, but until then that's what I think.

Thanks

Brandon

[paxfish]

Thanks for posting that, Brandon. I wasn't trying to ignite anything here. I believed you did offer to do flyovers during PSCR to try and get a better feel to back up your motion to the committee. And I understand that you can only fly on reasonably good days. But you flew on a couple of good ones.

It's probably fair to say that most PSCR folks fish on reasonably good days also.
It's good to hear that there were far fewer boats out there engaging in PSCR than you thought.
I believed that all along. Knowing in my gut that PSCR effort was small. Nearly immeasurable.

I will say that the the couple of times I went this year, there were very few boats on the bay at all. And sadly, the fishing was poor.

I would submit that time spent by you, the advisory committees, the DNR, the legislature and those of us who volunteer our time toward helping manage and recover our fisheries is very valuable. Much too valuable to waste on what appears to have been a red herring. Despite the glaring collapse in effectiveness of the committees and ASMFC over the last 6 months, I remain hopeful that leadership will emerge that can help the recreational fishing community sort the wheat from the chaff and direct what is clearly a LOT of energy in a better direction. Toward productive improvements in our fisheries management.

We need to look to our recent successes in Yellow Perch and Blue Crabs to guide our path forward with rockfish and oysters and other species that have collapsed or are on the cusp.

And no more of this "we have heard concerns...."

[B-Faithful]

Brandon, Thanks for your time to respond.

A few things. i think we both are pretty much on the same page that there are things we can and probably should do to reduce our impact on striped bass to benefit the fishery while maximizing its use for today and tomorrow. While I became active in the debate to ensure access and opportunity remained open and originally took the educate before regulate position, I do see the value in barbless hooks, no stingers, and use of circle hooks with bait. All those items have scientifically been shown to reduce mortality with the catch and release practice. It is tough to argue against them.

As you know, I am a huge access and opportunity guy as I believe recreational fishing is a vital part of a healthy society and economy. I also believe as long as there are commercial interests are able to extract for our public resources that access to the public, who owns the resource, should not be taken away. In regards to recreational fishing, this can be reduced to catch and release which has been proven to be a sustainable way for recreational anglers to access the resource. It has virtually been proven to work for sustainability every time it has been implimented. This does not mean that I believe in the opportunity to keep or harvest fish for oneself is not vital to recreational fishing. It is EXTREMELY important to the economic impact and maximizing participation levels by the public. To me this is where managers need to figure out if the resource can sustain itself through a harvest, how many fish can be harvested, and the best way to ensure a sustainable harvest through issuing harvest season length, creel limits, and size limits. The managers also have to decide how this sustainable number can be allocated between a commercial harvest, if sustainable, and public-access fishing. They must do so to maximize the use of our public resourse to benefit our state as a whole. The main way a harvest from the public resource can benefit the state as a whole is through economic impact. I do believe that as more is known of the economic impact and benefits of recreational angling to society, that more value will be put on public access fishing in the future.

I disagree that not every angler looks to efficiency when fishing. I added to my post above that one is not likely to light tackle jig in the channel without concentrated marks on their finder. I assure you the anglers you list do not just go to any place in the bay and cast a line in hopes of catching a fish. They have learned what to look for in order to maximize their opportunity to catch a fish and have become efficient at what they do. That is why they are recognized as good fishermen and above the norm. Trollers will set a multi-rod spread and search out fish where concentrations are relatively light in order to maximize their chances at catching a fish. Again, I referr you to the DNR's statistics on recreational fishing during the trophy season in regards to angler efficiency.

to be clear, I do not compare and contrast light tackle fishing with trolling to look for equal efficiency restrictions on other methods of fishing but to show that I believe the targeting of the efficiency of anglers who chose to fish a particular method to be unwarranted given the amount of unknowns . There is/was no target that they were attempting to achieve by reducing the efficiency of some fishermen. Again, I have fished both methods this preseason and enjoyed them both very much. I found a passion for winter light tackle fishing this year that I have not experienced before as most my light tackle fishing occurs in the late summer early fall when the migratory fish are not around. However, I do like to troll as I enjoy the work and teamwork of me and a crew managing a 12 or 13 rod spread. I also find it be the best opportunity for my kids to land a trophy-sized fish since much of the work can be managed by the capt.

You also cite the areas closed to fishing during the spring. The areas you cite have been scientically studied and shown to be the "spawning areas" of the striped bass. There were ground surveys that show concentrations of striped bass eggs in plankton samples within those areas. That is considered a known data as per the DNR fisheries technial memos. These areas were not closed to fishing based on concerns heard.

Again, I appreciate your taking the time to respond and your service to fisheries management. While we may not agree on some items, I do have respect for you. I believe debates and discussions like these are warranted and good for fisheries management as a whole.

[Brandon]

Greg

All noted. I'll say one thing in response to your closed area discussion. All the information you state about the closed areas having information around them is correct. What DNR, you, me and other anglers know is that the main stem of the bay is loaded with the very fish that goto, occupy, and spawn in those areas. If we close those areas, but do not allow the fish to get to those areas then what's the point? Trophy season opens when it does to try and allow the high concentration of female striped bass to make it to those closed areas (we can debate the opening date of that season and we should take a look at it. Those discussion are already happening). C&R fishing while it does not kill every fish, still kills fish. I was sent some data recently that said something to the effect that all the C&R discards by recreational anglers of striped bass on the east coast make up the total amount of striped bass caught by commercial anglers along the coast. Pretty amazing when you start to think about it like that. Point being, C&R does kill fish so why not limit activity during a time when we have a high concentration of female fish with regulations already out there with lines drawn in the sand (water) where if the fish makes it across the line then they are "safe". The data is there, the fish have to travel the main part of the bay to get to those areas, like you said, the data shows that when/if they make it there they do spawn. How about letting them get there or at least minimizing effort to a bare minimum.

One can say that we allow fishing on other spawning fish with out all the hoop ra, agreed, we do, perch, shad, largemouth bass, etc... However, we do not put totally off limits lines around those species, for a variety of reasons. So if we're going to put lines in the sand to help maximize the opportunity for striped bass to spawn, then we should give them the best chance to get there. Are the regulations in place helpful, I think so. Should we push for a closed time frame based on what I have seen, I do not think so at this juncture. But, and I know you will disagree, that closing fishing, all fishing, during certain times of year, makes some sense and we should not take the stance of allowing C&R all the time, it makes C&R anglers come off as believing they are better then C&K people and just causes a divide. It also comes across as not being willing to walk the walk when it comes to doing something in the name of saving the fish. It's not a foreign concept; I've been an advocate for catch and release being a sustainable way to fish for a long time, I've seen it implemented all over the world in different fisheries, at the same time in those C&R fisheries, fishing is not open all the time, it does close down, usually for a few weeks during spawning season. Why? to protect the fish. So what I would like is for people to at least being open to that form of management to protect the fish during critical times of year when effort, regardless of method, reaches a point when it make sense to give them a break.

Thanks for the debate.

Paxfish,

I do not think all was not lost I think we might chalk it up to preventative fisheries management, doing something before it becomes a problem. Not a bad approach in my mind because the other way of crisis fisheries management does not work worth a hoot.

In light of the oil spill I think we should all think about allocating more of our time to water quality. All the allocation fights, all the "fisheries management" time that went into gulf species is all lost because of water quality now. We have a chance to fix some things in the bay, unlike oil that will stick around forever. I know its been a wake up call for me to allocate a little more of my time to the bigger issue what can help a bit more and make the overall pie larger instead of always fighting about a pie that keeps getting smaller.

Brandon

[paxfish]

In light of the oil spill I think we should all think about allocating more of our time to water quality. All the allocation fights, all the "fisheries management" time that went into gulf species is all lost because of water quality now. We have a chance to fix some things in the bay, unlike oil that will stick around forever. I know its been a wake up call for me to allocate a little more of my time to the bigger issue what can help a bit more and make the overall pie larger instead of always fighting about a pie that keeps getting smaller.

Brandon

Go Ahead. It is helpful. Water quality is important. Multi-pronged approaches and all that.

But there are prescient fisheries management issues that need attention more urgently from the commission and the committees. With the declining rockfish population, it's time to set the start of trophy season a bit later in the year next year. I suggest not before water temp at a standard location reaches 65 degrees. Or no sooner than 5/15 so that folks can plan their days/charters. And probably also high time to implement tighter creels on rock fish too. Slots, quantity, whatever the scientists recommend. It's time to give weakfish a chance to recover as well. They have gone the way of the oysters.

And don't get me started there....

[Brandon]

Pax

We already started things with helping rockfish, the late December season was closed last year and I suspect will be the same for C&K anglers, those that like to keep fish took a hit, that time of year there have been some really great fish in the bay. I'll be interested to see what the trophy season numbers come back with this year. But hard for C&R anglers to start that debate limiting C&K anglers access and opportunity when its clear they are not willing to not fish themselves during a critical spawning time of year, especially when C&K took the December hit. That's just my observation about things regarding that debate.

Weakfish, well you and I could probably beat our heads against the wall on that one, NC was jut found out of compliance yesterday. Oysters, well, I do not even know what to say anymore, harvesting when a population is at 1% of its historic population should be criminal, but hey, what do I know doh

[5th Tuition]

I'll be interested to see what the trophy season numbers come back with this year. But hard for C&R anglers to start that debate limiting C&K anglers access and opportunity when its clear they are not willing to not fish themselves during a critical spawning time of year, especially when C&K took the December hit. That's just my observation about things regarding that debate.


Brandon; am I reading this correctly (perhaps I'm confused). Are you saying that because I don't want my C/R opportunity restricted (that causes <1% mortality); I shouldn't be able to say that the C/K season (that produces 100% mortality) should be set back to a few days in order to increase spawning.
5th (Marty)

[27 sailfish]

I find it very hard to believe that C/R ends up killing so many Rockfish.
Seems to me - there would at least be a few dead ones floating around.
Sounds like some fuzzy math to me on the amount of released fish dieing.

Fish are a lot tougher then we realize. I've transported fish caught on hook /line from a pond - in a half filled 5 gallon bucket - 1/2 hour drive - and they are fine in my son's aquarium after a year.

Good luck getting the opening of kill season changed - that would make too much sense and actually save pre spawn fish.

[B-Faithful]

We already started things with helping rockfish, the late December season was closed last year and I suspect will be the same for C&K anglers, those that like to keep fish took a hit, that time of year there have been some really great fish in the bay.

That is incorrect! Catch and keep only anglers did not "take a hit". The season was always set to close December 15th according to the 2009 regulations. An extention of the season was not granted but there was no "hit taken". There is no way to pin the denied extension on keeping access open to catch and release when a record of over 90,000 fish were harvested during the 2009 trophy season. (especially with no data on the C&R preseason and the fact that the typcial trophy season yeilds a harvest of 30-60k fish). It is because of that exceptionally high harvest that the season was not extended. If Maryland desires to extend their season, they need to look at creel limits and size limits. Maybe Maryland should look at adopting a no-take slot to maintain its harvest numbers while extending the season. It worked for the 2007 trophy season where participation levels were at their highest.

Besides, are those fall fish "prespawn" or "post-spawn"?

[Brandon]

Hi Marty

You can say whatever you want and I am not disputing what you say about mortality. Intellectually it makes sense. However, we're dealing in the political world and that world operates differently then sometimes reason or intellect. I am not commenting that its good or bad, just the way it is. So you can certainly make that argument, how it all plays out will be interesting. Also remember, the trophy season is enjoyed by a ton of Maryland anglers. Recs catch something like four or five times what charter boats catch, so shortening that season does effect recs more then anyone. Are Maryland rec anglers as a whole willing to take the hit? I am asking that question.

Skip,
The numbers are what they are. Recreational discards for striped bass along the coast, i.e. C&R, equate to the commercial catch along the coast as I understand the data.

In addition, I was also sent some information today from someone on the striped bass advisory committee that even when poaching is figured into the numbers at 10, 20 30% they still do not move the model on overall mortality. We can argue the model is wrong, but that is the model they use. Meaning, the whole poaching argument in the managers eyes is a mute point anymore.

We're moving a bit off topic here and one could argue why should be restrict anything since all this stuff seems crazy, but at some point if we do not do something everything will fail.

Someone said to me today, and I think they are right, if we lose the stripers in Maryland really all will be lost, we do not have anything else to really fish for anymore. They are right, there will not be much more left to fish for, so every positive step we can take does help. Maybe we have to take more of a hit then someone else, but we have more to lose.

I do not know all the answers, but it certainly all makes for interesting conversation and debate.

Brandon

[27 sailfish]

Unreal - poaching huge females full of roe has little impact - and these guys get paid for this.
If I remember correctly - in the PSCR meetings - even one breeder killed was considered too many.
How about - poaching is not too big a deal because certain concerned stakeholders view it that way.

IMHO - we are going to see another disappearance of Rockfish. Writing has been on the wall for last few years.

Discard / dead Rock numbers still make no sense. I got a feeling some numbers were played with.
If it was that high - C/R fishing would have been shut down years ago. No sport fishermen would knowily kill so many fish they release. I know a lot of guys have stopped chumming - in fear of killing small Rock.

[Brandon]

Skip

Its not just about C&R, C&K anglers also practice C&R, when you throw back an undersized fish that is C&R. The numbers add up quickly with so many anglers.

I think at the rate we are going Rockfish will probably go through another bad time. If they really do increase the TAC to increase commercial fishing it will crazy. The commercials are not suggesting increasing TAC, but rather taking from the recs. The recs will probably never give up any allocation, thus what we will end up with is TAC increasing. It's still all in play, should be interesting to watch how it all unfolds. BTW, MD voted to move forward with increasing the the commercial catch. It would be hard for me to think of all the effort we went through to do something good with C&R yet MD goes and votes for that, nothing rational about fisheries management crazyloco

[B-Faithful]

, MD voted to move forward with increasing the the commercial catch. It would be hard for me to think of all the effort we went through to do something good with C&R yet MD goes and votes for that, nothing rational about fisheries management crazyloco

:amen:doh

[Brandon]

Greg

Concerning the Dec "extension". Of all people I would think you would be fighting to keep that extension and not defending not getting it? Anyway, if MD really had wanted that extension we probably would have gotten it, thus my statement the C&K anglers took a hit. They were given the extension one year and it was taken away the next. It was not built into the regulations so MD had the option based as you suggest on harvest levels, but in 2009 if we really wanted it I would bet we could have gotten it. It was opted to let the season close.

Like I said, fisheries management can be hard to figure out sometimes.

Brandon

[5th Tuition]

[QUOTE=Brandon
In addition, I was also sent some information today from someone on the striped bass advisory committee that even when poaching is figured into the numbers at 10, 20 30% they still do not move the model on overall mortality. We can argue the model is wrong, but that is the model they use. Meaning, the whole poaching argument in the managers eyes is a mute point anymore.

We're moving a bit off topic here and one could argue why should be restrict anything since all this stuff seems crazy, but at some point if we do not do something everything will fail.

Someone said to me today, and I think they are right, if we lose the stripers in Maryland really all will be lost, we do not have anything else to really fish for anymore. They are right, there will not be much more left to fish for, so every positive step we can take does help. Maybe we have to take more of a hit then someone else, but we have more to lose.
Brandon

Brandon, it is beyond me how the statements below can be used in the same argument.
[Poaching, even at 10%,20%,30% is a mute point in the eyes of managers////////at some point if we do not do something, everything will fail//////so every positive step we take does help]
At this point; all I can hope for is that you use your position on the board wisely, and that you not be misled. I sincerly hope your efforts lead to an abundance of rockfish in a healthy bay. You are one of the few people that hold my opportunity to fish (either C/R or C/K) in your hands. We have seen first hand how one user group can come dangerously close to abolishing one segment of fishing for another user group. You played a hand in this senario; some would say a small part, some would say a larger part, but as you grow and mature in this new position, please be aware of the concequenses of your actions. I wish you all the best, and the wisdom to be an effective leader.
5th (Marty)

[B-Faithful]

Brandon, I would have loved to have seen a season extension. I am one who ran to PLO between Christmas and New Years to run over the VA line. We did have colder water this year that had water temps in the upper 30's by mid dec so the fishing was not as good as the previous years, but it was good to be on the water none the less with the opportunity to keep a fish. I just dont think extending the harvest season should come at the expense of access and opportunity to fishing itself (and I dont think it did.. I believe 2009 trophy season harvest numbers were the key component to not getting the extension). C and R closures would have set a bad precedent as season lengths, creels, and size limits can more easily be adjusted to provide for a sustainable fishery long before all out closures to the opportunity to fish. What happens if and when there is a collapse of striped bass populations and we cannot afford a harvest or have to drastically reduce the harvest season if we have deemed catch and release not sustainable without scientific justication? (answer: Maryland anglers lose even greater access to one of our prized resources and the economies that support recreational fishing die) As I stated in my earlier response in this thread and others, size limits and creel limits would be my preferred method of managment in order to maximize the harvest season length. I am intrigued with record levels of particiation and reduced harvest numbers of the 2007 trophy season where we had a no-take slot. It appears from the data that the no-take slot did not deter levels of participation with the opportunities provided to anglers to keep a fish and reduced the recreational harvest. To me this requires some consideration and discusion to how managers can maximize the use of our resource in a sustainable way. I know it is a complicated issue with conservation equivilency at the ASMFC but maybe Maryland should be looking at no-take slots that would reduce the harvest so we could experience longer seasons.

I also believe that while we keep looking at Maryland as it is our responsibility as citizens of the state that some political pressure needs to be better applied to other states where anglers enjoy greater creel limits and harvest more fish (in millions of lbs according to NOAA for 2008 - MD at 2.6, NY at 7.0, NJ at 4.7, Mass at 5.5). If Maryland needs to look at itself and how our harvest affects the overall sustainability of the fish, I think the trophy season and harvest of migrant fish should not be the focus of Marylands efforts. Currently we have a juvenile harvest in the summer that probably has higher discard mortality than that of the colder months when the migrants are here as well as the season potentially has a high mortality due to disease. Is Maryland allowing enough junvenile fish to enter the migrant population given the mortality of summer fishing discards (due to high water and air temperatures and likeliness of undersized fish), creel limits and myco bacteria? I dont know but there is science that could call this into question ahead of our migrant harvest and the catch and release early season.

[Blast n Cast]

Skip and others, my friends who were stopped by the DNR were fishing out of BPM and out of Kent Island. In years past the NERPS (based on my experience and discussions with other trollers) would ask trollers to show evidence of life jackets, flares, throw cushions, etc by asking you to hold them up while you were underway. This past PSCR season I was told they asked boats to wind-up their gear so they could come aboard. They did not focus on barbless hooks and focused on safety. My point is that it appeared the # of patrols were much higher then years past in response to the law change. Clearly the NERPS could see if you had out 20 lines. If you did not they moved from the too many lines issue to boarding. Let me say I have no issues with law enforcement doing their job and respect and obey the spirit and letter of the law. This being said it seemed to me based upon feedback from those on the water that there was far more early season police activity in response to the law change. I simply stopped PSCR this year based upon the potential for added NRP intrusion, the limited amount of gear that could be used and my frustration with the politricks associated this whole process.

Brandon, I agree with you that the fishery has peaked and could be in danger of decline. While I have had my share of good bag limits the bite this spring has, in my opinion, been significantly less impressive then recent past years. My frustration is that we limit PSCR, to appease political spinsters, but still allow the 2x per day charter trips in the ocean in the winter and in the Bay in the spring, allow the manhadden to be raped by OMEGA, etc

[Brandon]

I will inquire NRP to see how many stops were made over the pre trophy season C&R to understand that situation better.

All the ironies of fisheries management is certainly something that warrants discussion.

If there is a current issue to watch it is if TAC (total allowable catch) is allowed to accommodate a commercial increase.

Brandon

[27 sailfish]

Here's one more gallon of gas to toss on the fire.

If I remember correctly - the PSCR was said to be perceived by other states as bad.
Seems to me - poaching can be perceived even worse but I guess if you're friendly with the concerned stakeholders - does not matter.

Cast/Blast - I got a feeling your buddies are pulling your leg. I've had DNR board my boat when I had everything out - just had to move a downrigger rod. They came along from the bow. I was out a fair amount early season - never even saw / heard DNR being out.
If you get the Coast Guard auxillary to inspect your boat ( they come to you ) - you get a decal for your boat. 99% of the time - DNR sees that - they just wave to you.

[bring_em_on]

I am not really clear about your whole efficiency argument. I am a light tackle guy, I will jig in 80 feet of water if I think I have a chance, in fact I'll fly fish. You'll find guys like Shawn K, Jumbo, Wild Bill and other light tackle guys who will do the same. It's not necessarily to some guys about efficiency, its about the challenge. I understand that your personal approach to fishing is all about efficiency, but not everyone approaches it like that.

I don't buy that point for even a microsecond. Show me one LTJ (and include me in that) who will pass up breakers or birds because it's not enough of a challege to catch in that environment.

"Whoa, look at them birds".

"Nah, that's too easy...let's go over to this structure I know where there likely won't be but one or two fish".

[paxfish]

I absolutely pass by breakers in order to patiently work over shallow shorelines seeking 1 or 2 nice fish an hour. When I have children on the boat though, I like to find breaking fish to keep them busy and interested.