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capt. walt
05-12-2010, 04:41 PM
Just read the newest article about the Menhaden. Why are you railing about no oversight or accountability and bureaucrats? These things aren't the issue. The commission is manned by politicians and people employed by politicians (bureaucrats) and people appointed by politicians. Politicians can occasionally be influenced by the people. If you get enough people working together, making enough noise--it can be done. Complaining about the structure is just spinning wheels.

Menhaden are filter feeders and they clean the bay. That simple idea should be amplified, restated, proof presented, disseminated again and again and again. The more menhaden, the cleaner the bay. Its that simple and simple ideas have a way of sinking into to general consiousness.

Goes for oysters too.

BILL H
05-13-2010, 06:33 AM
capt. walt,
What you say is true. However, the problem is that the Chesapeake Bay is an abstract concept to the majority of the people who live in the States that border it. It doesn't really impact their lives. The presence or absence of menhaden is even more of an abstraction. The population doesn't even eat them, so their presence or absence is of little or no consequence to them. Look at how little interest the general public had/has in the oyster or crab populations, and they are eaten by many.

Basically, only those who are directly impacted by the condition of the Bay are concerned, and their voices are difficult for the politicians to hear above the roar of campaign contributions from those who benefit from exploiting the Bay's resources.

capt. walt
05-13-2010, 07:57 AM
I grew up in Maryland near the Bay. I now live in Baltimore City. Most people I know in the city and in the tidewater area care about the Bay. Poles show that the vast majority of the American people care about and want improvements in the enviornment. But, they don't know how to get those improvements, they don't know what to do. If we know a little something about how to improve the Bay we should let it be known. Since Menhaden and oysters are filter feeders and clean the Bay, I would propose a five year moritorium on both species.

BILL H
05-13-2010, 09:15 AM
capt. walt,
I agree with both of your proposals. I am generally an optimist, but the combined power of entrenched special interests, and the overall apathy of the public, make it unlikely, at least to me, that there would be the slightest chance of either one coming to fruition.

In the abstract, the American people care about the environment, but when it comes to specifics, and when there is the tiniest chance of a sacrifice being required, a lot of that "care" just evaporates. Perhaps your friends in Baltimore care about the Bay, but I would guess that your friends' concerns may not be too representative of those of the overall population of the City. Likewise, the feelings of the tidewater residents are not necessarily representative of those of the majority of the residents of Virginia and Maryland. Additionally, I hear a lot of tidewater residents don't want one bit of interference with their attempts to make a living from harvesting the last oyster and menhaden.

I don't want to rain on your parade, but everything I have seen over my (admittedly short) 16 years of recent life in the Bay watershed, tells me that little is going to happen. People won't push for the hard choices, and will b*itch loudly about "big gubmint and socialism" if any administration (at the State or Federal level) were to take any decisive action.

SaltyJB
05-14-2010, 07:22 AM
Finally, we have progress!!! In its most recent meeting May 5, the ASMFC Menhaden Management Board acknowledged some problems with the abundance of the coastal stock. Testifying on behalf of changes were Coastal Conservation Association Virginia, the Menhaden Coalition, Maryland Saltwater Sportfisherman's Association, and Greenpeace. Outdoor writer Beau Beasley also testified in favor of the changes.

The coastal abundance of menhaden is down 88% in the last 25 years.

That alarming fact can no longer be ignored. The board voted to reconsider the biological reference points by which they assess the stock. This will no doubt force a conclusion that menhaden are in fact being overfished, and that there is an insufficient abundance to satisfy the needs of the reduction industry as well as fish, bird, and mammal predators.

Here is the ASMFC motion that was approved:
Move the Menhaden Technical Committee (TC) develop alternative biological reference points, if possible, for the August 2010 meeting. These reference points should include protection for spawning stock biomass (SSB) or population fecundity relative to the unfished level and a reference point associated with abundance. The TC should present to the Board a range of potential reference points that preserve varying levels of SSB. These levels of SSB should be placed in context with those that are currently employed for other stocks of clupeids and pelagic forage fishes. The TC should develop a range of management strategies to achieve the reference points with, if possible, expected outcome for yield and stock benefits. Request for the Policy Board task the multi-species committee to work with the Menhaden TC to account for predation in the alternative reference points. Motion made by Pat White (ME) and Steve Meirs (NMFS). Unanimously approved.

capt. walt
05-15-2010, 12:36 PM
To paraphrase Everet Dirkson, nothing is more powerful than an idea whose time has come. Mr. Dirkson was a sleazy politician who could bow to the lobists with the best of 'em, but he understood that once the public gets its collective mind around a simple idea, the power of it can sweep away any resistance. I urge every one on this board to educate their friends, neighbors, relatives, etc. to the idea that menhaden, also known known as elwys and bunker, filter the water in schools of thousands. The more menhaden -- the cleaner the Bay.

Kevin Smith
05-16-2010, 07:13 AM
Capt Walt & Bill H,

Your exchange is a great thing to see. It is articulate and spot on.

For the many of the same reasons mentioned in your exchange, the CCA VA has help to start an organization called The Menhaden Coalition. So far there are 33 members that have joined and these organizations include; CCA VA, CCA MD, fishing clubs, conservation organization, a major tackle shop, a major marine trade organization, marinas, etc. So far we have members between North Carolina to Maine and national organization tha that are members. The primary focus is to educate anglers and the general public about how menhaden impact the Chesapeake Bay and the Atlantic Coastal Fisheries.

Keep spreading the word.

Kevin
Weekend Mistress
Coastal Conservation Association Virginia, President

capt. walt
05-17-2010, 09:48 AM
I just had a conversation with a fellow who is really into birding. He identified a Northern Waterthrush by its call. He knows about watersheds and the polution that flows into the Bay. He was under the impression that the Bay is dead. Low disolved oxygen and all. He was very interested to here me say that the Bay is not dead. That I catch lots of fish - Rock, Croakers, Blues, Spot, White Perch, etc. Then we got on the subject of the menhaden and the oysters. He's a knowlegable fellow and took the info in. One more person who might make a difference.

Jim, where I grew up in eastern Baltimore County they call 'em elwys, pronounced El-Wise

capt. walt
05-25-2010, 10:38 AM
Neow, You all shun't make fun of folks from down Bolweese Quarters. Aer fathers worked at Martin's and Bethehem Steel and built Balmer and Balmer Counnny.

LY2000
05-25-2010, 02:29 PM
All Deeds had to say was he was against Omega during the VA Governor's race and he would have gotten 30,000 votes off this webpage (and a couple of others). His staffers wouldn't listen to me.

WiFiGuy
05-26-2010, 01:10 AM
capt. walt,
What you say is true. However, the problem is that the Chesapeake Bay is an abstract concept to the majority of the people who live in the States that border it. It doesn't really impact their lives. The presence or absence of menhaden is even more of an abstraction. The population doesn't even eat them, so their presence or absence is of little or no consequence to them. Look at how little interest the general public had/has in the oyster or crab populations, and they are eaten by many.

Basically, only those who are directly impacted by the condition of the Bay are concerned, and their voices are difficult for the politicians to hear above the roar of campaign contributions from those who benefit from exploiting the Bay's resources.

I also share BillH's pessimistic view of with regard to the plight of Menhaden in the Bay. For most people in the Balt. / Wash DC areas, a quick glance from the window as they drive over the bridge is about is about all the attention most give to the Bay. As long as the water looks somewhat blue-ish and hasn't caught fire (Cuyahoga River, 1969) they're OK with what they see.

What they don't see is that otherwordly chocolate-colored water that glows neon red when a prop goes through it. They also don't see the screens of fish finders that show lots of nothing. They don't smell the raw sewage, or see Rock that are covered with open sores, nor do they have recollections of how it used to be and how far it has declined.

Unfortunately Menhanden only matter to a politically insignificant number of people. If Menhaden were cute and cuddly like Panda bears or were symbols of our Nation (Bald Eagles) things might be different. With broader public support, our lawmakers would be forced into acting on behalf of the people they serve for the good of the species and the Bay in general. Instead they take money from business interests and enact laws that allow them to exploit the resource--and in so doing ensure a steady stream of revenue for their own political careers.

Can or will this nasty little cycle get better? I don't think so. If anything it will only get worse since I feel that young people today value the Bay and it's marine life far less than we do.

Sorry Mr. and Mrs. LY, you're just not cute enough to save.