Are they kidding?

[tolmaz]

just wanted to voice my dissatisfaction and dissapointment with this years deer check in policies. not only is this bad for the bait and tackle shops financially but do you really expect to gather accurate information this way. I was checking in my deer today and overheard 2 hunters talking about bucks they had killed but called in as does so they could continue to hunt for another buck. Of course they had to butcher the deer themselves. Somtimes I wonder what you people are thinking. The officers are stacked at the docks waiting for the rec fisherman in Ocean City waiting to catch someone with a tuna not tagged BEFORE he pulls his boat out meanwhile the commercial boats rake in 15,000 pounds of rockfish illegally? Im,sure this was just one boat right? Come on...Are you really concerned about the law abiding sportsman or just the dollars. I think I know the answer


Sent this to DNR today

was frustrated after trying to get thru on the phone, phone doesnt work in the area we hunt, cause I had to have the conf. # before the butcher shop would take it. dont have a laptop in my truck. Killed the deer at 8:30 Am got home around 3pm after all the BS. Didnt bother hunting the PM after all that

[FishHook321]

Hey, I know where you're coming from. We just started that same system here in Virginia. It seems like it would open up such a big can of worms for the unsportsmans to do the wrong thing. Now I do know that with the system we have, that a game warden can look at the number given to you on the phone or computer and tell what type of animal was called in, date and county of kill. Hopefully this will deter some of those unsportsman from thinking about doing the wrong thing.

[choptank]

[tongue]

[ketch69]

I don't agree with the way they did it either.


DEAN

[Big DV]

Don't understand the logic. I do know that for some people driving a deer to a check-in station can be a hastle. I know that a lot of does and small bucks were not checked in the past because of the inconvience of driving to a check-in station. My prediction is that this year the deer count will be larger than the past based on the fact that does and small bucks that may have just been butchered at home in the previous years and not checked in will be easier to check in. But, I did enjoy swinging by the check-in station opening day and seeing what everyone got.

[chesapeakeblend]

you summarized my thoughts too (except i have not bagged a deer yet to try the new system).

mike

[Dave Sikorski]

The DNR will never know how many deer are shot in MD and what type. some shoot what they want and always will. A huge number of deer are never checked and it will stay that way forever.

With the populations the was they are deer are the last thing the DNR is worried about.

But hell if it was up to me I'd fire all the fools and re-structure completely.

-D

[MarkTakacs]

For some reason, I was talking to a DNR official about something else and I brought up the check in station issue (before the season).
He told me that they were having problems in some areas finding people to be check in stations.
That they spent like a 100 thousand dollars (?) to pays some of these places to be check in stations and coupled with complaints from hunters...............eliminated.

We also loved hanging out at the check in...........the Vienna Shell station was amost like a hangout.

Typical DNR..........as said, I don't think they care about the deer.

You have to get the confirmation number by midnight .............please, what happed to 24 hours.

Both of my deer were check in late........it even asks you........did you kill it today (and it was a no hunt Sunday)

Mark

[stripermd]

Have to agree with you there. Although I have friends and family that work at DNR and it would be a good idea for you guys to get some more backround information before you go haywire.

[KenCraft]

I got a deer the first morning early. The check in proceedure was quick and easy. However I have to wonder what the impact will be in the long run. Hunters coming in to check their deer generated business for those Mom & Pop locations along with sales tax dollars for the state.
In my opinion just another step ruining the deer hunting in some areas. Deer are currently viewed as a nusance, some day they'll spend a whole bunch of tax dollars to study what happened to them when there all but gone in some locations. I can't figure what the DNR will come up with next to kill more of them.

[fish1]

I can see a no check system in the future, no need to check deer at all, just regulate seasons, how many of you will kill every buck you see?

Or every doe?

I just got back from Alabama and you can kill 2 deer a day every day of the season for a possible count of 275 deer a person.

Bill

[choptank]

Stipermd,

I have 2 realy good friends one cureently works and another quite working for DNR because of some issues. DNR is mostly NOT the problem its the people above them ( who fund them) or lack of funding and under manning them realy handicaps these guys/gals.

I know the everyday field working DNR employees are overworked and under manned, They should be commended for their dedication.

The problem I have is the phylosophies of from the uppers and the certain rules set almost accomodate the illegals. The Wal marts and no check in stations have almost eliminated the true hometown store!

I have proceeded with the Wanton waste letter and have decent results so far as most agree this should be in place.

Jason

[mikehn]

I am gonna take the other side of this. I believe phone-in check in is good. Whether you check in person or call it over the phone, people are gonna break the law no matter what. What about all those deer killed, tenderloins removed, and left on the side of the road? Trust me, those were not checked in. In past years when I checked in deer at a station, the checker never bothered to look at my deer anyways, I could have told them it was a buck or doe, they could care less. They have 10 customers standing in line and 20 other hunters checking in deer. They are not going to walk out there and look at your deer. Just my opinion. Now you can all gang up on me.

[crow]

I like the idea of not having to drive out of my way to get a deer checked in.

[sapidusandsuds]

I just realized that this is the same topic, under a different thread title, that is ongoing over at the Ches. Angler Board. Pasted below is my response to that thread. I hope this helps clarify a few things for folks. As you can see from the posts above, many folks like this new system; others are skeptical of our reasons and yet others are concerned that we don't care about deer. I hope my post below helps answer those concerns.
--------------------------
As the person responsible for the decision to institute the new electronic check-in system I thought it worthwhile to respond.

First, we build systems to accomodate customers who are inclined to abide by the law. As several of you point out, the unscrupulous will beat the system one way or another. The former check station system was far from flawless and individuals who wanted to check multiple antlerless deer could have done it in the old system just as they can with the new system. Don't agree? Think about this: despite being required to look at the deer, how many of you checked a deer at one of the old checkstations and actually had the store verify the sex of the deer?

However, the data do not demonstrate that people actually check multiple antlerless deer to kill an extra buck. How do we know? A quick glance at the check-in data as compared to the number of multiple antlerless deer checked versus 'second buck kills' and/or bonus buck stamp purchases. In the end, the data evidence a fairly honest hunting public that generally complies with the rules. Otherwise we'd have a mess of people killing and checking two bucks . . . the truth is that less than one percent of our successful hunters kill a second buck so perception doesn't comport with reality on this one.

Furthermore, if a guy wanted to kill multiple bucks and cut them up in his barn or garage he'd skip the cost of buying licenses and stamps and avoid the aggravation of calling in multiple fictitious does and simply go out, kill his bucks, cut 'em up and put em in the freezer.

The good news? We know this guy. His name is "Poacher"; and while we don't have a system to beat all of them yet, the new one is substantially more difficult.

How? Because you must tag that deer before it is moved from the place of kill with a tyvek tag that will not fall off AND record that info to your harvest record before it is moved from kill site.

Bad guys get caught when they're in the woods; leaving the woods; or transporting the animal. If they fail to do any of the required tagging elements in the new system, we can ticket them anytime after they move that animal from the kill site. This is a substantially higher burden than the old system where we rarely ticketed anyone with a 'lost' field tag since they always fell off; AND we never required a log of the kill by the hunter on their personally assigned and numbered harvest record.

Likewise, the new e-system allows us to query the data almost instantly. So, if we check you at your local butcher with a deer that you claim to have killed with a bow in September, I can do a data-search (using any number of different criteria) and see if you're telling the truth. In fact, I run that search from my wireless handheld and check you on-the-spot.

In the past, we didn't have access to the brick and mortar checkstation data for weeks or months --- especially data from the stores that refused to use the e-machines and resorted to the old handwritten books instead. (By the way BrianC, we won't come knocking on your door for an inadvertant data-entry mistake but, if you have multiple 'errors' in there we might ask 'what's up' and see how you respond.) Again, we can do this with the new system and could not with the old.

Finally, we are looking at several new ideas to generate foot-traffic for the old checkstation retailers and will roll them out next season. In the meantime we gave all of them an opportunity to 'advertise' for free in the annual game guide so long as they participate in offering our new 'Junior Hunter Certificate" program. About half of the former checkstations opted for this program and we appreciate their cooperation...after all, if it's good for jr. hunters it's good for the retailer's future too.

However, we are in the business of managing Maryland's wildlife; not foot-traffic for retailers. I can guarantee you, despite rumors to the contrary, that this new system will capture the data more accurately and in a more efficient, timely manner. This will help us make decisions in a more timely manner and afford us the opportunity to communicate to hunters and gather input in a more effective, timely way. A simple example...you won't have to wait til June to know when the next two year deer seasons will occur. We will develop regulation proposals shortly after the end of bow season and ultimately give you more notice for your plans and leave schedules for your employers and families.

Lastly, the biological data necessary to manage our deer herd will be easier and more efficiently collected. Instead of assigning wildlife staff to nearly 100 checkstations across the state to gather biological information on a handful of deer at each location the staff are now setup at processors where the deer come in higher volume and are more accessible. Recall that many of our former checkstations were in shopping centers and the like; making for a difficult venue to age, measure and gather other biological parameters from a dead deer....in at least one local example, the hair salon next door just wanted the deer to stay in the truck and the hunter to get his truck out of the parking lot as quickly as possible.

Processors are a preferrred location for this work and they are cooperating very well with us in this new effort. In addition, as mentioned above, many of our suburban counties were losing checkstations and hunters were forced to travel great distances to find a checkstation (and then hope that they were open).

We ARE very committed to making sound biological decisions about all species; including white-tailed deer. Yes, there are too many deer in many parts of Maryland but that doesn't mean we don't care about them. In fact, to the contrary, they are one of the most important species we manage and this change will only help us improve our scientific foundation as we go forward.

Change is difficult but sometimes it's the right thing to do. I am confident that a few years from now most Maryland hunters will recognize this change as an appropriate one; from a customer convenience, scientific and social perspective.

If you have any questions or concerns about this, or any issue involving wildlife management in Maryland, feel free to drop me a note at ppeditto@dnr.state.md.us.

Thank you in advance for letting me jump in here (I am regular lurker and occassional participant because of my personal passion for striper fishing and just stumbled on this thread...the title kinda got my attention

Cheers,
Paul Peditto
Director
MD. DNR-Wildlife and Heritage Service

[choptank]

Thanks for the reply and enlightening of this subject. It actualy helps to know that you look and see our concerns. Abiding by the law makes alot of us wonder how this system can help prevent unlawfuls but I guess nothing will actualy stop these acts from occuring. I wish there was a fool proof way of stopping these poachers from doing as they please.

[stripermd]

Exactly choptank, it's the guys high up. Although the biologists are giving them suggestions, they have final say. I do think that this is a bad idea.

[sapidusandsuds]

Unfortunately, we couldn't build a fool-proof system to stop law-breakers. We do the best we can to build systems that are convenient for law-abiding folks which allows us to spend our energy looking harder for the poacher, liar and law-breaker.

[tolmaz]

Paul as s I stated on the other board I really appreciate you stepping up and trying to answer our questions. I have had a better response from you thru these threads than I have with anyone else. I can only believe what you are telling us and will try to support your efforts. Although I dont agree with some of the procedures of the new law only time will tell if it works.

[POLECAT]

Not having read every response on both posts I have this to say:

I believe this phone in/ computer check in proceedure was perhaps implemented a bit hastily even though I have absolutely no idea how the DNR works internally to decide these matters.

Maybe in a perfect world it would work to everyone's satisfaction, but we all know this world is not, nor will ever be perfect!

One more year of the traditional check in station way of reporting a harvested deer
****A L O N G ** W I T H **** the new proceedures placed into effect might have worked out better to everyone's satisfaction. In other words, the hunter could choose which way of reporting his kill he/she preferred to use. This system would allow those who liked the traditional method to use that method and those who found the old way too troublesome, to utilize the new proceedure. Both DNR and the individual hunter would benefit. The transition from old to new methodology could utilize this "break in" period to improve both systems which I personally believe the hunter should have a choice in.

Maybe this is too reasonable to expect.

[jwica]

the deer harvest in Maryland will be WAY off this year... why?

the guy who targets just bucks will harvest his first and call it in. call in two bogus does and then harvest his second buck. the doe harvest will be way off this year.

I think the new system is VERY convenient, and i like it. but it has its flaws. but i guess that's only because of "shady" hunters.

[MarkTakacs]

With the old system you could have checked in bogus does if you wanted to...........I cant remember the people at our checking station ever looking at the deer?
Even though we always had the deer and weighed them........dont think that it ever said you had to have the deer present?

Mark

[Big DV]

In the future will the public be able to view the check-in info on the net? Would be neat to see where and when what was being checked in during the season. I know we can see the grand totals at the end of the season. But, to be able to see each individual area during the season would be interesting? Just a thought.

[makoman238]

The illegal hunters are taking advantage of the new system here in Charles county and probably state wide as well. The weekend before opening firearm season the local butcher was overrun with deer turned in to be processed. I drove by his shop and noticed the parking lot full of deer that had been dropped off that morning. I asked the butcher if those were bow kills. He told me that one had an arrow hole and the rest were killed with a firearm but were all checked in as bow kills. There were at least six nice bucks in the bunch. I guess there's nothing that anyone can really do to stop the illegal bastages from poaching or taking advantage of any system. I have always wondered why anyone would take a nice buck illegally. I would think that every time they bragged about their nice buck that a little voice inside would be telling them that they are f#$%ing lyars and poachers.

[mikehn]

makoman238 originally wrote:
The illegal hunters are taking advantage of the new system here in Charles county and probably state wide as well. The weekend before opening firearm season the local butcher was overrun with deer turned in to be processed. I drove by his shop and noticed the parking lot full of deer that had been dropped off that morning. I asked the butcher if those were bow kills. He told me that one had an arrow hole and the rest were killed with a firearm but were all checked in as bow kills. There were at least six nice bucks in the bunch. I guess there's nothing that anyone can really do to stop the illegal bastages from poaching or taking advantage of any system. I have always wondered why anyone would take a nice buck illegally. I would think that every time they bragged about their nice buck that a little voice inside would be telling them that they are f#$%ing lyars and poachers.


They can do this under the old system as well. Drive to the check in station, tell the clerk you just bowed a nice doe, when in fact you just shot a big buck. The clerk writes you a check in slip. You are on your merry way.

[Durado]

........the only thing that upsets me here is that the MD DNR can not force, expect or even except that not everyone has a cell phone or laptop computer to call in these deer and infact many do not want one. Almost like, you MUST have a cell phone or Laptop in order to hunt deer in MD. Otherwise, how will you be able to remove your game from the field without one?

[makoman238]

I talked with Bryan Eyler who does environmental studies on deer for the DNR. We discussed this subject at length and he told me that the butcher/deer processors could be held accountable for taking deer that were tagged properly. He also mentioned that DNR doesn't have the resources to physically check on all the butchers and deer processors to ensure they were taking properly tagged deer. There are always going to be hunters taking advantage of the system. Heck, here in Charles county a lot of hunters don't even grab their guns until the sun goes down and it's probably that way in a lot of areas.

[sapidusandsuds]

Durado,
You do not need the confirmation number before moving it from the place of kill. You only need to complete a field tag with your name, address, license number, county, etc. AND complete your assigned harvest record with the same info.

You then have until midnight that day to complete the electronic check-in. Which means, if you don't have a cellphone or laptop in the field, you can check it at home on your desktop or via a standard landline telephone.

Hope that clears that up.

Paul

[Durado]

......it does, thanks.[smile] Man, your watching this like a hawk![grin]. Since we have your attention, I'd like to see MD tighten it's bag limits and seasons for deer a little in the regions that do not need the extensive reduction of the herd. I love the early blackpowede and all the bow hunting opps., but quite frankly...it's a bit too much. Bow huntng isn't too bad, but the muzzleloader followed by the doe only muzzleloader, the youth, when the firearm season rolls around (the most effective and successful means) the deer are very shy. Possibly cutting back in regions such as Dorchester, wicomico, somerset, worcester, talbot,...basically the lower eastern shore. Problem areas should get the increased hunting opps, but lumping everything region B with all the hunting, they're getting beat up pretty bad down here. The farmers will always complian (rightfully so) but that's because your too restrictive on them. J.M.O.

[tolmaz]

Makoman- Bryans road was where I overheard that conversation. I hunt on Billingsley Rd. Does the butcher begin with a "C". ?

[makoman238]

Yes, the butcher shop starts with a C but I don't really blame the butcher. It is not their responsibility to enforce regulations. I would think the the DNR guys would stop by some of the butcher shops occasionally. Are you part of the club that hunts B-Road?

[tolmaz]

No I agree with you Mako. Itss not the buthcher shop to blame. It was two guys talking outside, I just happen to be there.

Not part of the hunt club. Hunt on private land, been hunting there for35 yrs or so