DNR Update

[GradyBaby]

Department of Natural Resources News Update

Oysters - The watermen’s oyster strike ended up lasting 4 days and accomplished little else than a loss of income for them. With the demand on oysters being significantly down this season and a large uptick in production fromTexas, processors simply purchased their product from out of state and bypassed the watermen entirely.

Until current regulations change and processors are required to report where their product comes from, the watermen have little recourse for a drop in price dockside. You can help by insisting that your shucked oysters come fromMaryland waters.

Rockfish – The Tidal Fish Commission’s recommendation to drop the gillnet quota from 500lbs per day to 300lbs per day was put into regulation this past week. This new daily limit took affect on December 1st and will be in place until the quota is met. The total gillnet quota remaining for December is 140,440lbs. Based on historical data this should keep the fishery open for approximately two weeks.

2011 quotas will be allocated to the fishermen on January 1st and the 300/lbs per license per day limit will continue.

Yellow Perch - Remember, the Chesapeake Bay Yellow Perch season is right around the corner. If you are interested in receiving some information about this fish please feel free to email me. We have a great information sheet to help educate your staff.

“Used” Oyster Shells – Looking for a place to get rid of your oyster shells AND benefit the environment? Take a look at the Shell Recycling Alliance, they will pick up your used shell for free and use them to replant oyster spat (baby oysters) in the bay. Each shell can provide habitat for 5-7 spat which are capable of filtering up to 28 gallons of water per hour!

[Shawn Kimbro]

Kinda figured that oyster strike would be a bust this time. Hate it for those guys, but aquaculture will put them completely out of business in a few years. Farm raised oysters are twice as good at half the price.

[night nurse]

Did not even know about the "Oyster Strike".. Shawn's right about the aquaculture, and some guys will make alot of money from it IF they get on board quick...

TED

[27 sailfish]

:jacked22: - How about a $5.00 increase on all tidal water license and buy out the remaining oystermen ? They get about $40.00 a bushel - take out expenses - hardly worth the hard work.

The tongs do a lot of damage to the bottom.

Everyone wants to see cleaner water - so let oysters filter the bay water.

[night nurse]

I would pay $10.00

[Baldzilla 2.0]

:jacked22: - How about a $5.00 increase on all tidal water license and buy out the remaining oystermen ? They get about $40.00 a bushel - take out expenses - hardly worth the hard work.

The tongs do a lot of damage to the bottom.

Everyone wants to see cleaner water - so let oysters filter the bay water.

Not to sound like an uncaring person, and let me preface this by saying I hold an oyster license so, hell, buy me out...but why buy 'em out? If your chosen profession became obsolte, who would pay you because you chose the wrong profession??? We have a damn near 10% unemployment, what are you gonna do for the rest of people out of a job? Why should everyone else have to subsidize them? Are they oystermen gonna kick $5 a piece in extra on their license if your business drops off to help you out??? We've known for years this is coming, the bay is crappy, the oysters aren't as good as those from other places or farm raised. I realize that it is not the oystermen asking for this, but they have had years to prepare for this and find another way to make a living. Why should others give their hard earned money because of a lack of proactivity on the part of the oystermen? It is not like someone held a gun to their heads and said "you are an oysterman dammit", it is a chosen profession, just like mine or yours.

I agree on needing the oysters to filer the crappy, nasty, polluted bay, so put a moratorium on oysters and rebuild the stocks, but don't pay them off for it.

[Shawn Kimbro]

Good point. The "Free State" has a long history of paying people for bad decisions. When you count seeding, subsidizing, and other programs, I bet we are probably investing three or four tax dollars for every oyster those guys pull off the Chesapeake bottom.

I'm going to really date myself here by admitting that, in my youth, there were times when I stumbled along in the red dirt behind a plow pulled by a stupid old mule. That's the same kind of device oystermen use for power dredging the bottom of the Bay. They call it a "devil diver" and actually believe that turning up the Chesapeake bottom with a metal plate improves oyster habitat. A guy out there hand tonging doesn't worry me too much, but when the "mule" pulling that bottom plow turns out to be 210 HP Cummins diesel, I gotta think there's a problem. It's no wonder there are less than 1% of our oysters left.

[fisheyed]

I have spoken with quite a few watermen and many are convinced that it is necessary to turn over the shell bottom every so often to keep the silt from choking our the oysters. more silt because of more people. I still believe aquaculture is the way to go. It seems to work everywhere but here. Last weekend I heard that the circle c is almost bankrupt and is non sustainable at this point.

[crabby and son]

Not to sound like an uncaring person, and let me preface this by saying I hold an oyster license so, hell, buy me out...but why buy 'em out? If your chosen profession became obsolte, who would pay you because you chose the wrong profession??? We have a damn near 10% unemployment, what are you gonna do for the rest of people out of a job? Why should everyone else have to subsidize them? Are they oystermen gonna kick $5 a piece in extra on their license if your business drops off to help you out??? We've known for years this is coming, the bay is crappy, the oysters aren't as good as those from other places or farm raised. I realize that it is not the oystermen asking for this, but they have had years to prepare for this and find another way to make a living. Why should others give their hard earned money because of a lack of proactivity on the part of the oystermen? It is not like someone held a gun to their heads and said "you are an oysterman dammit", it is a chosen profession, just like mine or yours.

I agree on needing the oysters to filer the crappy, nasty, polluted bay, so put a moratorium on oysters and rebuild the stocks, but don't pay them off for it.

I have to agree. My construction business is in the crapper right now and NO ONE is here to help me. I will help myself and find a job until the economy picks up. We definitely need oysters to filter the bay. They work long hours with NO pay! You cant' grow 5,000 and harvest 4,000 and still clean the bay though.........Gary

[Shawn Kimbro]

I guess it depends on how you many of your tax dollars you think keeping the Maryland tradition alive is worth.

I'm not arguing that it might be worthwhile to keep subsidizing Maryland watermen. Those are pretty boats. Just pointing out that, unless the state keeps putting more and more into the oyster welfare program, the practice of wild harvesting Chesapeake oysters will die for purely economic reasons. Wild caught Chesapeake oysters just can't compete viably with less-expensive and better tasting aquacultured products.

[GradyBaby]

Saving the oysters would be great but everyone who has worked with them knows the only way to increase populations is through aquaculture. Though the state has worked to start the industry they have failed at making it easy. Sanctuaries, thought a good idea, do not work. The oyster populations are well below what is needed to keep the industry alive. If you really want to save the bay you have to ignore the wild markets and do everything you can to get the aquaculture industry in the state. If you fight more for regulation to help aquaculture you will do 10 times what you did making sanctuaries.

[Shawn Kimbro]

Saving the oysters would be great but everyone who has worked with them knows the only way to increase populations is through aquaculture. Though the state has worked to start the industry they have failed at making it easy. Sanctuaries, thought a good idea, do not work. The oyster populations are well below what is needed to keep the industry alive. If you really want to save the bay you have to ignore the wild markets and do everything you can to get the aquaculture industry in the state. If you fight more for regulation to help aquaculture you will do 10 times what you did making sanctuaries.

Maryland oyster growers should pay attention considering Hank probably buys more seafood in one day than most of us will in a lifetime.

[Capt C-Hawk]

The DNR report posted went beyond oysters and I have a question about the daily gill net allowance. Since the net doesn't stop working when the daily limit is reached what happens to the extra dead fish?

[hippie]

Shawn, I did not know the oysters are down to 1% of what their population once was. What is the legislatures and DNR doing about it? They should have stopped everyone from harvesting oysters. I don't mean to put the watermen out of jobs but that is the way things go. When I was a kid in school I trapped to make money then that Bob Barker (the price is right) started crying and the fur industry went bust. It just happens. When my business gets slow no one helps bail me out (least of all the goof in D.C.). But then again what do I know, Bob

[Patapsco Mike]

From the 1920's to the 1970's oyster harvests were in the 2-6 million bu/year and there were 2,500 or so guys catching more than 100 bushels/year. Last year's harvest was about 180,000 bushels with slightly over 300 guys catching 100 bushels/year or more out of around 800 oyster harvesting surcharges paid. So we are at something like 12% (or more) of the oystermen we had when harvests were much higher. Dockside value of the harvest last year was something like $5 million. That's a considerable amount of money. You only need to talk to a couple dozen of these men to understand that making even a little money in the winter is an important part of their ability to be full-time watermen.

It's way too early to say sanctuaries won't work. Large scale, enforceable sanctuaries and the penalties needed to allow protection to work have only been around in MD for one season...

Those who say tax dollars are keeping the oyster industry alive are wrong. Ten years ago, maybe it played a part, but today very little tax money goes towards the oyster industry (with the notable exception of the recent Crab Disaster funds, which are temporary).

[Shawn Kimbro]

You guys can do all you want to paint people as city boys, but this hillbilly knows a welfare program when I see it. Where do you think those oysters come from these days? How much do you think it costs to seed Chesapeake oysters, move fossil shell, replant splat, etc. etc. etc.? Disprove this: I think it costs the state of Maryland three dollars or maybe four for every dollar it costs to buy and eat a Chesapeake oyster. Yep, they taste good and those boats sure are pretty out there, but in my opinion, it's welfare no matter how you look at it. There are better tasting, cheaper oysters that are farm raised. I'm just asking how much you want to pay? Let's leave it up to the people of Maryland. Your tax dollars, your choice?

[wino]

I went to an Oyster tasting in Palm Beach Gardens last year, there were oysters from all over the country, all tasted blind. Each area of oysters was assigned a number. I remember how I bragged to my fellow tasters how great the Chesapeake oysters taste and I had been eating them for over 6 0 years. The oysters out of the Honga were especially sought after. Out of 13 different varities tasted our beloved bay oysters came in dead last, I was kinda devastated. The best came frm Mass, Long Island and the state of Washington. Old Ebbit grill in D.C. has had similiar results in their tastings. What the hell happened, these oysters were tastless like the ones from Appalachiacola Florida. Experts please chime in.

[blue lou]

Oil company welfare, peanut farmer welfare, dairy farmer welfare, alternate energy welfare...........
Must be very amusing to all the emerging capitalists in Moscow and Bejing.

[Patapsco Mike]

Shawn- you are recycling 10 year old arguments. The oyster program is different now than it used to be. Something like 95% of oysters harvested are wild oysters, and no fossil shell has been dredged since the 90's.

Arguing about what oysters taste better is like arguing about what is the best tasting beer. Everyone has their own likes and dislikes. If you crave a super-salty oyster, as many do, Chesapeake oysters probably aren't your thing. If you want a sweeter tasting, mildly salty oyster you are more likely to enjoy MD oysters.

[Shawn Kimbro]

I respect you and Jim's opinions, Mike and almost always agree with you, but I think the point is especially applicable now because the price of Chesapeake oysters is tanking in the face of competition. I also understand that, as a fisherman who wants to see more oysters on the bottom of the Bay, it's probably more beneficial to me for the state to be subsidizing watermen work programs because it drives replanting efforts, reef rehabilitation, etc. I think it will eventually come down to two choices. We'll either have to put significantly more money into it and keep the boats on the water, or make the entire Chesapeake an oyster sanctuary and let the reefs recover. It won't get better the way it's going now.

[Shawn Kimbro]

Couple of articles mentioning additional subsidies, taxes, calls for more replanting, etc.

http://www.cecilwhig.com/business/article_097d6b04-f803-11df-ac69-001cc4c002e0.html

http://www.delawareonline.com/article/20101120/BUSINESS/101120016/Md-oyster-strike-ends

[Patapsco Mike]

Shawn- there is nothing in those two articles about subsidies. Those are about the watermen's attempted strike, and their stated desire to place import tariffs on out-of-state oysters.

I've heard demand is down, but watermen were making far more for a bushel of oysters at the beginning of this season than they had made in a long time. The price is back down to normal- $25-35 a bushel depending on where they come from. Guys wise enough to get their dealers license and savvy enough to do a little marketing can do a lot better than that.

[Shawn Kimbro]

I was using the term subsidy loosely. To be specific, they're asking for more tax money and even hoping for new taxes:


> But state officials have done little to replant oysters beds in Tangier Sound, although bushel taxes and license fees are supposed to be spent on the effort, Crockett said. Currently, there is "a mountain of shells" at the Small Boat Harbor in Crisfield that have never been planted. "Apparently, the state's forgetting where their money's coming from," he said.

> But state officials have done little to replant oysters beds in Tangier Sound, although bushel taxes and license fees are supposed to be spent on the effort, Crockett said.

> Haddaway said the state could fix the problem by taxing oysters coming into Maryland to bring those costs in line with that of Bay oysters.

> State Sen. Richard Colburn said Monday he intends to consider legislation in the 2011 session to do just that. He plans to talk with both buyers and watermen about a tax that would make prices identical or higher than that of local oysters.

Now, I don't have the time or inclination to run the numbers on how much the state and federal governments spend on seeding, replanting, watermen work programs, shell recycling, etc. etc. etc. but I do know that NOAA alone has spent over 30 million dollars on oyster restoration in the Bay (4.6 million in 2009). I'd say that was tax money well spent except, well, they're dredging them up and selling them for 30 dollars a bushel. But anyway, my point isn't that we need to do away with oyster recovery. It's that we need to decide how much it's worth to us to keep alive the Maryland tradition of oystering. If you think it's worth 3 or 4 bucks an oyster, then that's a viable position. I don't think the argument that it's a self-sustaining industry is.

[Brandon]

I've been reading this thread with interest as I always do about oysters, although I have to admit after a while it gets me crazy to think about harvesting anything when it's at 1% of historic levels so I just have to step away from it all. We're at 1% of historic levels and we are even thinking about anything other then aquaculture, really? If we keep doing what we are doing maybe, just maybe it will get better....well maybe with some fairy dust in a wild dream after a long night of partying...anyway

One thing I think I can add to Shawn's point about subsidies that a few here seem to be questioning to make it real simple is this: I've heard that it costs us (taxpayers, conservation groups etc) $180/bushel to raise a bushel of oysters in the bay. The commercial interests get to harvest these oysters and get by reports in this thread about $35/bushel. Now you can use whatever word you want to describe the delta between the $180 it costs to produce the bushel and the $35 it gets sold.
A subsidy is:
A benefit given by the government to groups or individuals usually in the form of a cash payment or tax reduction. The subsidy is usually given to remove some type of burden and is often considered to be in the interest of the public.

In the oyster situation one would be correct using the word "subsidy" to describe what is going on by definition. The only problem is that the oyster subsidy has been "marketed" as being in the best interest of the public, when in reality it's in the public's worst interest. Actually allowing the harvest of oysters in the bay is pretty much assuring we'll not have them in the Chesapeake. I try to focus on the positive things, so I guess the good news here is from Wino that oysters from other areas taste better anyway.

If we do not get our act together in the years to come the younger generation will get to not only read about how the Chesapeake used to be a great fishery for sturgeon (the second largest caviar producer in the world), used to have great oysters, used to have clean water you would swim in with out worrying about getting disease (keep an eye out for a national horror movie by a world famous producer/director next year based on dirty water in the Chesapeake, now how sad is that what people are thinking now), used to be what else....Like I said, what do I know :eek2:

PS I am not anti commercial fishing, if/when we have a healthy population of oysters I say recs and commercials should get to harvest them. If you want to call me or pin me down as anything you can pin me as I am anti extinction.

[uno]

I was using the term subsidy loosely. To be specific, they're asking for more tax money and even hoping for new taxes:


> But state officials have done little to replant oysters beds in Tangier Sound, although bushel taxes and license fees are supposed to be spent on the effort, Crockett said. Currently, there is "a mountain of shells" at the Small Boat Harbor in Crisfield that have never been planted. "Apparently, the state's forgetting where their money's coming from," he said.

> But state officials have done little to replant oysters beds in Tangier Sound, although bushel taxes and license fees are supposed to be spent on the effort, Crockett said.

> Haddaway said the state could fix the problem by taxing oysters coming into Maryland to bring those costs in line with that of Bay oysters.

> State Sen. Richard Colburn said Monday he intends to consider legislation in the 2011 session to do just that. He plans to talk with both buyers and watermen about a tax that would make prices identical or higher than that of local oysters.

Now, I don't have the time or inclination to run the numbers on how much the state and federal governments spend on seeding, replanting, watermen work programs, shell recycling, etc. etc. etc. but I do know that NOAA alone has spent over 30 million dollars on oyster restoration in the Bay (4.6 million in 2009). I'd say that was tax money well spent except, well, they're dredging them up and selling them for 30 dollars a bushel. But anyway, my point isn't that we need to do away with oyster recovery. It's that we need to decide how much it's worth to us to keep alive the Maryland tradition of oystering. If you think it's worth 3 or 4 bucks an oyster, then that's a viable position. I don't think the argument that it's a self-sustaining industry is.

I think you are misinformed - the taxes they are talking about are already being paid by the watermen and the oyster buyers (a per/bushel tax for every bushel harvested, and an extra $300 surcharge by every licensee who intends to harvest oysters). Those funds are SUPPOSED to be dedicated specifically to the oyster replenishment/shell planting programs. Evidently, they're not at the present time. The tariff being thought about by Colburn would level the playing field by stopping the dumping of cheap oysters from out of State, much like the dumping of cheap shrimp from the Far East areas. I haven't read where the tariff money would be spent, even IF it was ever enacted, which is very doubtful.

[Brandon]

Jim
To be clear, I am good with aquaculture, what I am referring to when I say harvest is "wild" oysters. Until we get to more then 60% or so of what we had I do not think we should be harvesting any wild osyters. Grow them like mad in aquaculture for sales, but not the wild ones in the natural setting.

Also, while I like the aquaculture model, it presents some problems which no one ever really answered for me when I asked. The model assumes that the price of aquaculture oysters will be high because they can be sold as "box" oysters. As more businesses emerge the box oyster price in theory will decrease because of the increased regional abundance. If this happens its possible the economics of running and aquaculture business might not work. I am not saying it will not, but in all this talk about aquaculture being the future, which it really has to be or we'll have no oyster business in the bay region, I have not seen a financial model that shows it is economically feasible. If it's not then we'll just shift the subsidy from harvesting wild oysters to harvesting aquaculture oysters. Point is, where is the model that explains the answer to this in the big master plan to bring oysters back? If we answer is that we do not have it, then someone better get to modeling because otherwise its all just talk and theory. I am not saying numbers are always right in the models, but the basis of undertaking any business venture is understanding the market size, understanding the product, and modeling the economics to see if the numbers make sense.

[Shawn Kimbro]

The tariff being thought about by Colburn would level the playing field by stopping the dumping of cheap oysters from out of State, much like the dumping of cheap shrimp from the Far East areas. I haven't read where the tariff money would be spent, even IF it was ever enacted, which is very doubtful.

Conservatives calling for new taxes? Hmmm. Your analogy would be good except they aren't dumping, they're selling in a competitive market, and we aren't talking about Thailand, but Virigina and North Carolina. I mean, how crazy can we get in trying to prop up a dying industry?

[Alley Cat]

I don't believe it is legal for a state to set a tariff on goods from another state within the US.

[Shawn Kimbro]

Brandon, responding to your business model comments, I want to suggest you speak with Kelton Clark or Mark Bundy at Morgan State's Estuarine Research Center. Those guys came up with an oyster aquaculture business plan that is entirely self-supporting and uses commercial fishermen in the process. The university is making it work until things catch on in the private sector, and they're not using public sector money.

Otherwise, next time you drive down to the Bridge Tunnel, give yourself a little extra time and make a right at the big sign for Cherrystone Campground. I stayed there for a week two years ago and my brothers and I managed a short tour of their aqua farm. Those guys have been very successful raising clams, and they're now doing the same with oysters. They are partly responsible for the current popularity of Chincoteague oysters.

I get your point about wondering if Maryland can compete once things really get rolling. I have enough faith in a free-market economy to think we can. Will everyone who enters the business make it? Heck no, but oyster aquaculture is booming all over the east coast right now. In fact, I'm headed down to Old Ebbit in a couple of hours for the half-price oyster happy hour this afternoon. If anyone wants to continue this conversation over some Wellfleets or Raspberry Points, let's go!

[Brandon]

Jim

I think it is absolutely great that we went from 8% to 25%, but its still not enough. That means 75% are getting harvested. If it were the other way around 75% off limits maybe we could get somewhere, until then I do not think its worth the time to even talk about if they will come back, they will not.

Shawn, I was referring to a bigger model. I have seen the business plan for running a facility in the shrimp, oyster and fish products. Even looking at investing in one right now. Specific to our region, the variable in the model is price for the product, ie the Chesapeake Oyster. As more people move into the aquaculture business it will increase supply, as supply increases the price will fall unless demand is increased. In order to increase demand you need some marketing plan to drive awareness about the product to increase purchases. Applying simple economic theory one can see the validity of this issue. I've not seen any master business plan that addresses this bigger issue. Without a plan its shooting in the dark and having been in business quite some time as an entrepreneur and venture capitalist I've yet to see businesses succeed with out some sort of plan that addresses this issue, I am open to being wrong. I am sure someone will say in most industries businesses do not get together and do a master marketing plan, true in the open market, but this is not the open market, this "business" in bay is being created by the government, as such its needs to address the issue of increasing demand to support the individual businesses it is trying to create to make the larger "Chesapeake oyster industry". Like I've said, I am open to being wrong and the feedback was free...:))

[Southern Grin]

Well I guess I'll throw my 2-cents in: the whole aquaculture debate will go on for a long time, unfortunately. For the past 30 years the State of Maryland and "con-servation" groups have tried to get watermen and interested citizens interested in aquaculture. The start-up of such an operation was/is daunting. State regulations concerning aquaculture in the past, were just too numerous to overcome. Now that the State is relaxing regulations, it will hopefully become more easily accessible for people who want to take a chance at growing oysters. My only problem with aquaculture is that it will never create a self-sustaining oyster population. In my opinion (everybody has one) we need to concentrate on bringing oysters back for their benthic community benefits, which far surpass any economic gain. I am for a healthy aquaculture as well as a healthy wild harvest. Here's my point: if you have a healthy wild harvest, that means the health of the Chesapeake Bay is much improved. All the oyster sanctuaries in the Bay will not bring oysters back until you find a disease resistant oyster. Disease has been the driver for the past 30 or so years, not overharvesting ! There is a disease resistant oyster out there but the "con-servation" groups won't allow it to be introduced, there fear tactics were too great to overcome ! Promoting aquaculture is a smoke screen for not addressing our water quality issue.

[Shawn Kimbro]

That is the question isn't it. Can a Chesapeake oyster compete with a Raspberry Point or even a Chincoteague? Maybe some people think they're good enough, but can we overcome well-deserved perceptions about poor water quality? I just don't see someone in Boston or New York looking at a menu and saying, "hmm, I think I'll go with a Chesapeake." That said, we love our oysters here, and I think there's enough buyers in Maryland to keep a pretty good industry alive.

As to business models, why should we use public funds for something that is better off left to the private sector? There may very well be some good models out there, but I wouldn't expect an enterprising entrepreneur to share them. I think Maryland should be in the business of promoting it's aquaculture and seafood, but I believe that's best left to the experts, ie those who are selling their products. All the state need to do is create an environment that isn't restrictive.

Gosh, I'm sounding so conservative lately.... Hopefully I'll find a cute little liberal house staffer at OEG who will slap some sense into me.

[Brandon]

Interesting enough when I talked about free enterprise at a recent public meeting I got laughed at basically. How about this, we close down oyster harvesting and give people the ability build an aquaculture business? If people go out of business as a result that sucks, but that is the free market, markets change and people have to recreate themselves to make a living...there in lies the problem, the government does not want to put people out of business so we are back at forget free enterprise, create subsidies and head for a real mess... I am sort of over it all anymore, it seems like the more you talk sense the more you get lost in translation about this stuff. And why even call this stuff conservation, what we are really talking about is "wealth extraction management".

[Southern Grin]

Hey Brandon, I almost always agree with you on most fisheries related topics. I cannot for the life of me understand the idea of closing the wild oyster fishery. I know that all will laugh at me but siltation is the 2nd worst enemy of the native oyster next to disease. If you prohibit oyster harvesting, it will NOT bring back oysters. Just look at the proof: Magothy River ( off limits to harveast 25 yrs plus), Severn River ( off limits to harvest 30 yrs plus), 2/3 of the South River ( off limits to harvest 25 yrs plus), majority of Rhode and West Rivers ( off limits to harvest 25 yrs plus), now Herring Bay, and let's not forget the 5000 acre sanctuary off of Plum Point that the State of Maryland has had for the last 25 plus years. Result: NO SUSTAINING POPULATION OF OYSTERS ! The historic oyster bars in these tribuitaries that I have mentioned, have literally sunk out of sight ! If you were to dredge these older oyster bars, you would be astonished at the amount of shell that is buried from a lack of harvesting or "working".

[DirtyFrank]

.... Hopefully I'll find a cute little liberal house staffer at OEG who will slap some sense into me.

Careful you don't get any of your oyster juice on her, that stuff stains you know.:eek2:

***Continue with informative and constructive oyster restoration/aquaculture conversation***

[Patapsco Mike]

I've heard that it costs us (taxpayers, conservation groups etc) $180/bushel to raise a bushel of oysters in the bay. The commercial interests get to harvest these oysters and get by reports in this thread about $35/bushel. Now you can use whatever word you want to describe the delta between the $180 it costs to produce the bushel and the $35 it gets sold.

Don't believe everything you hear. Actual production cost estimates exist. Why not make a few phone calls to find out what it actually costs? Call someone like Ken Hastings, who actually bothers to go to the oyster meetings and hearings and as a result knows what he is talking about.

Oysters are incredibly frustrating to discuss. Such a rich, detailed network of fictional rumors, half-truths, and out-of-context statistics exist that every conversation ends up spinning in circles. You tell someone what is really going on, and it doesn't match all the rumors they have heard so they assume you are crazy. It is no wonder that people have a hard time separating fact from fiction.

[Brandon]

Southern Grin

Good point, how about this, how about we dredge, clean or whatever you want to call it, the bars, but leave the oysters there. If we are going to do restoration we are going to have to do some work not just leave it for the very reason you point out, the oyster bars get buried. If paying watermen who have the equipment to do it helps them then that's great, but leave the oysters and let's see what happens.

Mike,
I got that $180/bushel number probably several years ago when I jumped into the whole oyster thing. If we have the number what is it? I am open to being corrected and learning what the real number is. I'd bet if it is not $180 its a heck of a lot more then they get on the open market, maybe I am wrong there too?

Here is what I know, we've been doing oyster "restoration" work for the last what, ten or twelve years. We've spent millions and millions of dollars (some taxpayer money, some private money through foundations, some private citizens like Scott and his crew in S. Maryland and the crew on the Seven that John Page is a part of etc...) and by everyone's account we are no better then were we were ten or twelve years ago. By some accounts we have less oysters then we did. So what part of this situation leads us to believe that if we continue to harvest oysters we're going to somehow increase the population. Yes we made some progress with increasing the off limits areas from approx 8% to 25%. Like I said, if we flip flopped it to 75% off limits that might make some sense. I honestly hope the new grand master plan works, but until we halt all harvest of wild oysters I'll continue to scratch my head in amazement of the situation of being at 1% of a historic levels and we still continue to take more.:wacko: I think we are writing a modern case study about how Shifting Baseline Syndrome can lead to the extinction of yet another wild animal in the bay.

In regards to the disease issue, I am aware that the demise of the oyster has been caused by disease, but I also know that animals adapt and I've been told that on some of the restoration sites they have oysters living and surviving past the ages of what we have seen when the disease takes it course. Could it be that the oysters are adapting, that if we let them come back in large numbers they might build a resistance? I'd argue given that what we have done in the last ten years has not worked, why not give this theory a try. Really, at this point what do we have to lose?

[paxfish]

That's why watermen say that dredging actually protects oyster populations. People have a hard time believing that...which is understandable. This is also why my perspective has evolved with time. Most people think that wild oysters will multiply quickly if left alone on the bottom. That was the case until 30 years ago but is no longer true. We could potentially destroy people and livelihoods when we need people who want to work and are very possibly doing more to help the Bay than hurt. I started a new sanctuary recently but I built it up on wooden pallets off of the bottom because it's the only chance the wild oysters have of survival. It's either raise them off the bottom or work them on a regular basis.

Jim - I don't know anybody who thinks that spontaneous repopulation of oyster bars will be a big part of restoration. The bars must be rebuilt, seeded and then left to consolidate, strengthen and grow.

And with regard to dredging? It does NOT make the bar healthier and in fact, is merely a guise with which to continue harvest. The growth rate of an oyster, 3 to 5 centimeters in it's first year, far outpaces sedimentation which averages less than .5cm per year. Further, on a proper 3-D oyster bar, sediment falls into the "troughs" where it is consolidated, and reduced by benthic organisms.

Dredging on the other hand, grades bars flat which allows sediment events to lay a suffocating blanket across a bar. It also destroys benthic habitat and critters. It also breaks up conglomerations of oysters that give a reef it's strength and it's 3-D relief above the bottom. Finally, it removes all market sized oysters, just as they are getting to size where they can release spat reliably.

I also believe that dredging magnifies inevitable LARGE sediment events. Take the biggest one we know of - Agnes. When those huge loads came in to the bay, they were able to lay a thick blanket across the reefs which had already been dredged flat. How would proper natural reefs have fared? I contend they would have weathered the storm with minimal losses.

For these reasons, I believe dredging is a very bad approach to oyster management. I also believe it is being promoted simply to continue the harvest of oysters.

DNR scientists know what a healthy bar looks like. They know how to direct the building of new ones. That is the approach to take.

If there is to be bottom aquaculture, then great. Designate areas for such activity, and stop using public money or private money gathered under false pretenses (Oyster "Recovery") to fund it. If Mike says that is no longer going on, great. But I am doubtful.

But I am hopeful overall. We've shown that native oysters can grow quickly (lots of food!). And they can thrive and survive for years. I also believe that big restored reefs will give them the critical mass they need to reproduce, fight disease and sediment events and sustain.

I want to see a day when we have thriving Chesapeake oyster bars in sufficient quantity and quality that a harvest can start again.

This is not that day.

[Southern Grin]

Hey Brandon, I like the approach, any and all bar cleaning does work. Just ask Ken Paynter down at the Chesapeake Biological Lab in Solomons. Bar cleaning was done in the Chester River a few years back and shell was brought up to the top, the oysters were harvested because they were diseased and disease "free" oysters were planted in their place,then the bar was off limits to harvest for a couple of years to see how recruitment and survival made out. The typical oyster dredging that Paxfish talks of is not in practice any longer. The boats and dredges smaller to concentrate the effort just on the oyster bar and not to spread the shell off of the existing bar. I have actually lost track of what happened in the Chester, but the small amount of monitoring that was done showed great promise. Hey Patapsco Mike, as far as contacting someone like Ken Hastings, that would be a complete waste of time. He is a CCA, anti-commercial fishing expert and his sole objective is to do away with the commercial fishing industry in the Chesapeake Bay. He is an extremely intelligent individual, but you need to get info from someone who does not have an agenda !

[shoreboy6]

95% of the Chester was shut down, prior to the start of the season, to any harvesting of oysters so there will be no data on results of the programs implemented from this harvesting season.

[Southern Grin]

I want to take this time to apologize to all TF members for what seems to be a personal attack on someone. My intentions were to make sure that information that is being sought after is not hijacked ! My apologies go out once again to Ken Hastings and all TF folks !!

S G

[Shawn Kimbro]

Thanks SG. I know Ken and I think you'd be surprised at how he feels about watermen.

Regarding the plowing debate, I wonder how those oysters survived for millions of years without humans to turn them over?

[Shawn Kimbro]

I agree with you on the big picture thing Jim, but it's just counter intuitive to me that plowing up a sea floor would in any way help it. I think it's agrarian logic applied to aquaculture and it just doesn't add up. Do you think they'd be dredging the bottoms if they were raising and planting their own oysters? As Chris says, it's a lot easier to tout the benefits of dredging when you're keeping and selling the top layer. If turning them over is so beneficial, why aren't we doing that in the santuaries. Are those oysters growing?

[Southern Grin]

Hey Shawn, the reason "they" do not dredge the sanctuaries is these areas are off limits....period ! It is amazing to see the areas that were once very productive years ago, have now completely vanished ! Not because of dredging or harvesting but when disease came in the late 70's and early 80's, the oyster bars were not worked and they have simply disappeared. Back in the 60's and 70's the State of Maryland used to close oyster bars from time to time, kind of like a rotation. Coopers Hollow over by Poplar Island was one such bar, also Old Rock in front of Chesapeake Beach was also a "super" bar. These bars were hardly ever seeded and re-generated on their own when closed for 2-3 years. Unfortunately DISEASE has been/is the major culprit in the oyster restoration failures today.

[Shawn Kimbro]

That's good insight and I appreciate the perspective. I didn't know about the rotations in the 60s and 70s. Who I meant by "they" is DNR/NOAA etc. If dredging is such a good thing to do, and the agencies are charged for oyster recovery, why haven't they used watermen work programs to plow? Is it because they haven't thought of it, or because the best available science says otherwise?

[crabby and son]

That's good insight and I appreciate the perspective. I didn't know about the rotations in the 60s and 70s. Who I meant by "they" is DNR/NOAA etc. If dredging is such a good thing to do, and the agencies are charged for oyster recovery, why haven't they used watermen work programs to plow? Is it because they haven't thought of it, or because the best available science says otherwise?



Dredging is good for one thing.........the dredger. NOTHING ELSE...........Gary

[uno]

I believe there has actually been some "bar cleaning" implimented in some areas last Spring (the mouth of the Severn, maybe?) where oysters and shells were dredged up and returned to the bar when the "cleaning " was complete. Perhaps the resident DNR oyster experts can chime in and let us know the facts.

[Jonny Oyster Seed]

If you've got some time for reading, the Bay Journal has recently published a 3-part series about oyster aquaculture in Maryland... This series is easily the best work I've seen on the subject - kudos to the author, Rona Kobel.

http://www.bayjournal.com/article.cfm?article=3978

[Patapsco Mike]

Mike,
I got that $180/bushel number probably several years ago when I jumped into the whole oyster thing. If we have the number what is it? I am open to being corrected and learning what the real number is. I'd bet if it is not $180 its a heck of a lot more then they get on the open market, maybe I am wrong there too?


From a report to the Oyster Advisory Commission
"The first reserve sites were established in Maryland in 1997 and the program was expanded in 2000 to create larger reserves (Figure 1). One
element of the 2000 expansion of the program was the designation of the Chester, Choptank, and Patuxent Rivers as priority areas in which to
establish reserves. Reserve sites are managed through a steering committee which is responsible for recommending to the Department the dates for
opening and closing the fishery, the daily catch limit, the minimum size limit and the limit on total removals. Opening managed reserves to fishing
requires DNR approval and generally only occurs when 50% or more of the oysters on the site are 4 inches or larger in size. Over 17,500 bushels of
oysters have been harvested in the reserve program to date .

Maryland's Oyster Reserve Program is administered by the Oyster Recovery Partnership (ORP). The ORP also oversees planting of hatchery seed on oyster
sanctuaries and open harvest areas. To date, ORP and its partners have planted over 2 billion hatchery seed. Of these, about 700 million were
planted on 17 reserves, 600 million were planted on 35 sanctuaries sites and over 300 million were planted on 37 open harvest areas (Tables 10 - 11).

Evaluation of the reserve program is limited to a 2005 Maryland DNR analysis of costs to produce oysters harvested from three reserves established in
2001 and fished in 2004 (Emory Hollow and Blunts in the Chester River and Bolingbroke Sands in the Choptank River) , the first year the bars were
opened. Costs included estimates for hatchery spat, bar rehabilitation, shell planting, seed production and planting, monitoring and staff time.
Production cost estimates for the total expected harvest over time (12,000 bushels) for the three bars ranged from $29 -$58 per bushel depending on
values used for spat costs and whether site preparation costs were included. Average dockside value of oysters used in the report was $23 per bushel. No
attempt was made to estimate the value of ecosystem services resulting from increased oyster abundance and biomass on the three bars.

Although final production costs for the three reserve bars used in the DNR analysis have not been previously estimated, the minimum cost using DNR
estimates would be in the range of $20 - $40 per bushel if all of the reserve harvest to date (17,500 bushels) was taken from the three bars used
in the original DNR analysis - Emery Hollow, Blunts and Bolingbroke Sands. Based on the reported harvest to date, this estimate indicates that the
production cost per bushel of oysters in the reserve program is equivalent to or higher than the ex-vessel price per bushel of oysters harvested in the
program. (Note that illegal harvest, which has been reported to have been significant on these bars, was not considered in the analysis.)
Obviously, increasing the harvest of reserve oysters would reduce costs but may not be compatible with managed reserve ecosystem enhancement objectives.

The 17,500 bushel reserve harvest is about 4% of the harvest of the wild stock in Maryland (477,000 bushels) over a comparable time period (fall
2004 - winter 2009). At an ex-vessel price of $30 per bushel, the total dockside value of the reserve harvest is about $525,000. Averaged over the
life of the project to date, this is equal to about $105,000 per year. Even without considering production costs, the economic benefits of harvesting
oysters from managed reserves are very limited compared to the value of the wild fishery. When production costs are considered, it does not appear that
economic benefits alone can be used to justify the practice of harvesting oysters from reserves. Note that future changes in the program may result in
an outcome where the harvest reserve program becomes economically viable."

A July 2010 VIMS report on the economic impact of the Gulf Oil spill on the state of VA estimated that the overall economic value of a bushel of oysters to the state economy is something like 2.5 times the dockside value (link http://www.vims.edu/newsandevents/_docs/oyster_econ_gulfspill.pdf ). For the state, we should be looking at the total value of oysters in the economy rather than just the net economic benefit for the watermen that do the harvesting. Using this valuation, such a program more than pays for itself.

[Patapsco Mike]

That's good insight and I appreciate the perspective. I didn't know about the rotations in the 60s and 70s. Who I meant by "they" is DNR/NOAA etc. If dredging is such a good thing to do, and the agencies are charged for oyster recovery, why haven't they used watermen work programs to plow? Is it because they haven't thought of it, or because the best available science says otherwise?

Many would agree that this is a good idea Shawn, which is why the state has spent several million dollars doing this over the last few years using both State and Federal Blue Crab Disaster $. You have probably read about it in the paper http://www.hometownglenburnie.com/slideshow/1236275576SevernRiverOysterRehabilitation
We have done before/after side scan sonar of the areas they work in, and it definitely worked in some areas. In other areas, the sonar doesn't show much difference. We are trying to refine how we select the areas to get the most out of every dollar.

[paxfish]

Mike - can you provide the source for that document? The backend data would be very interesting.

Thanks,

[Patapsco Mike]

I would be happy to e-mail the entire document to anyone who asks. Shoot me an e-mail to m n a y l o r ( at ) dnr . state . md . us

Take all the spaces out of course.

[Southern Grin]

Hey Shawn, the reason that DNR does not use watermen more frequently is because the "con-servation" groups have convinced the public and our Legislature that dredging does not work. I do not want to mention any specific groups because a lot of folks on TF belong to one or more of these organizations. I have been involved with fisheries for many years and have witnessed the downright hatred that some of these groups showed in the past at hearings/meetings toward commercial fisheries management. Perhaps one day you and I can sit and chat about the Chesapeake Bay, as for now that will have to wait.

[Jonny Oyster Seed]

In my earlier post, I pointed out a wonderful series in the Bay Journal about oyster aquaculture in the Chesapeake. The only problem is the link I provided wasn't actually the "entry point" into the series. Below is the correct link:

http://blog.bayjournal.com/?p=144

[Shawn Kimbro]

There's also an interesting article about aquaculture in the October 2010 issue of Chesapeake Bay Boating. I couldn't find an internet version.

Gotta take a break from the discussion for a trip down to the mouth of the Bay. Eye opening conversation and thanks.

[shoreboy6]

PUBLIC NOTICE: OYSTER HARVEST RESERVE AREA OPENINGS

Posted: 12/08/10
Type: Commercial
MARYLAND DEPARTMENT OF NATURAL RESOURCES
FISHERIES SERVICE

The Secretary of the Maryland Department of Natural Resources (DNR), pursuant to Natural Resources Article §4-1009.1 of the Maryland Annotated Code and the Code of Maryland Regulations 08.02.04.14, announces that the oyster harvest reserve areas described below for the Chester River and South River will be open for harvest effective only under the conditions set forth below. Buoys will mark the open areas described below. Reserve sections outside the marked areas remain closed. Harvesting may only occur on the dates specified in this notice, although the buoys may remain on site for a longer period of time. This action is recommended by the Oyster Harvest Reserve Steering Committee.

Harvesting conditions for all sites: Open Monday through Friday from December 13, 2010 through January 12, 2011 from sunrise till 3pm; 3” minimum cull size; 15 bushel daily limit per license not to exceed 30 bushels per boat (oyster surcharge fee must be paid for each harvester); 5% tolerance of oysters which measure less than 3 inches from hinge to bill; cultch consisting of shells, stones, gravel and slag must be returned to the bar; only the gear that is legal for the area may be used; catch must be held in containers; check boats may be on site to record any harvest.

Chester River - Blunts:

All of the waters of the area enclosed by a line beginning at a point defined by Lat. 38°59.323' N, Long. 76°11.874' W; then running 52° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°59.486' N, Long. 76°11.606' W; then running 130° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°59.418' N, Long. 76°11.501' W; then running 227° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°59.225' N, Long. 76°11.764' W; then running 319° True to the point of beginning.

Chester River - Copper Hill:

All of the waters of the area enclosed by a line beginning at a point defined by Lat. 39°2.757' N, Long. 76°12.003' W; then running 22° True to a point defined by Lat. 39°2.920' N, Long. 76°11.919' W; then running 106° True to a point defined by Lat. 39°2.897' N, Long. 76°11.817' W; then running 204° True to a point defined by Lat. 39°2.707' N, Long. 76°11.927' W; then running 310° True to the point of beginning.

Chester River - Devils Playground:

All of the waters of the area enclosed by a line beginning at a point defined by Lat. 39°0.026' N, Long. 76°12.082' W; then running 43° True to a point defined by Lat. 39°0.131' N, Long. 76°11.955' W; then running 106° True to a point defined by Lat. 39°0.106' N, Long. 76°11.844' W; then running 217° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°59.994' N, Long. 76°11.951' W; then running 287° True to a point defined by Lat. 39°0.026' N, Long. 76°12.082' W; then running 167° True to the point of beginning.

South River - Brewers:

All of the waters of the area enclosed by a line beginning at a point defined by Lat. 38°56.130' N, Long. 76°31.463' W; then running 88° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°56.132' N, Long. 76°31.371' W; then running 182° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°56.004' N, Long. 76°31.376' W; then running 281° True to a point defined by Lat. 38°56.014' N, Long. 76°31.439' W; then running 351° True to the point of beginning.

These reserves have met the criteria for additional harvest. This action is intended to increase yield and mitigate potential oyster losses due to disease.

For any questions or comments contact Eric Campbell at DNR’s Chesapeake Shellfish Division at 410-260-8261.

[paxfish]

I would be happy to e-mail the entire document to anyone who asks. Shoot me an e-mail to m n a y l o r ( at ) dnr . state . md . us

Take all the spaces out of course.

Thanks Mike - the article was very interesting, and though it revealed little about how the costs per bushel were calculated, it is a good reminder to compare apples to apples with regard to the years that the data was gathered (2001 in this case).

It did however raise serious questions about bar cleaning as revealed in this quote:
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; } The efficacy of bar cleaning is questionable because of the 20% of oysters that are typically left behind by cleaning efforts. An indirect negative impact of bar cleaning is the indiscriminate removal of healthy, potentially resistant animals that are ideal broodstocks for restoration. (Since 2008, the practice of bar cleaning is no longer being conducted by ORP.)
p { margin-bottom: 0.08in; }

That seems intuitively obvious to most of us, and yet there are forces out there that want to continue this foolish practice simply to continue the harvest. The practice destroys oyster habitat, reduces the population of healthy oysters and makes it more susceptible to sediment loads.

Finally, it is remarkable to me that a key decision point when determining whether to harvest a managed reserve is when the disease incidence is high enough that it is feared the oysters will die before they are harvested. How close to death is that oyster you're eating?

[Patapsco Mike]

You are free to bash bar cleaning all you like, but I'm not sure what you hope to achieve by doing that. Right inside of what you just wrote (above) is the note that "Since 2008, the practice of bar cleaning is no longer being conducted by ORP." I think these discussions will be more productive if we talk about oyster management as it's happening now rather than bash the way things used to be.

[paxfish]

I agree Mike. Southern Grin raised bar cleaning as a good thing further up the thread and that was my response.

In keeping with the spirit of your response though, and since we're keeping everything contemporary and all, you should not use 5 to 10 year old cost estimates when citing costs. Or if you do, qualify it as such.

thanks for your participation though - it is very important.

[uno]

Does anyone have any references for the effectivenes of "bar cleaning" (by which I mean dredging the shells with bagless dredges to turn the shells over) to counteract the effects of siltation? The links provided above only reference trying to counteract disease by removing infected oysters, basically a waste of time since you'll NEVER get all of the diseased oysters off of a bar. I know some people don't think siltation is a major problem, but on the oyster bars that are present today, it is.

[Southern Grin]

Hey Paxfish,
Just as a side note, "bar cleaning" is the removal of diseased oysters which is practically impossible. The upside ( I know you won't agree) is the bringing up and mounding oyster shells for future spat sets or planting of "disease free" oysters. The use of smaller workboats has made this a better practice, whereas many years prior the big skipjacks that sailed would drop the shell anywhere and not on the actual oyster bar. I have not only witnessed power dredging in a small boat but actually participated in the net results, IT DOES WORK ! It might benefit you to tag along sometime on a power dredge boat and witness what actually happens out there. And then go back 1-2 years later and see for yourself the benefits.

[mosgo]

Used oyster shells Dnr owns 200 tons of them in crisfield. Been there for years........