What do you do? Legal, "Right", ??

[C-Hawk18]

Seeing all the responses to the present rockfish "situation" in NC I started thinking.

Take a look at the below scenario and answer the questions below it.

Middle of July, You set out of Sandy Point State Park on a Live Lining trip. 6 anglers with you. Each has traveled at least 200 miles to go rock fishing with you on this day.

You find the spot and proceed to put 100 in the livewell.

You get all 6 set up with a live spot and the lines go in the water. All 6 lines get hit and all 6 anglers pull up 17" stripers that are gut hooked and float near lifeless upon release, sure to die. When you look around you there are 5 other boats close by and all 5 each have 6 anglers on their boats and each had experienced the same situation as your boat, 6 fish on deep hooked, floating on release.

What is the legal thing to do?

What is the "right" thing to do?

What do YOU do?



**For those who move to a different spot the same exact thing happens there, and there are 5 boats there that it happens to also.

Then what do you do?

[27 sailfish]

Might be a better example to use chumming or casting small lures.

Not trying to be a smart a$$ but one nice thing with live lining is almost all will be keepers. If a under size is hooked - fair chance it will be lip hooked.

Hear what you are saying though - never good to see a fish killed but not kept.

I can still remember seeing large numbers of dead undersized Rock near Love Point when chumming was the big draw. That is when circle hooks were pushed - idea was to avoid gut hooking little ones.

Thing in NC - the trawl netters are up grading / culling a catch.

Most sport fisherman strive to release fish alive.

[C-Hawk18]

Might be a better example to use chumming or casting small lures.

Not trying to be a smart a$$ but one nice thing with live lining is almost all will be keepers. If a under size is hooked - fair chance it will be lip hooked.

Hear what you are saying though - never good to see a fish killed but not kept.

I can still remember seeing large numbers of dead undersized Rock near Love Point when chumming was the big draw. That is when circle hooks were pushed - idea was to avoid gut hooking little ones.

Thing in NC - the trawl netters are up grading / culling a catch.

Skip - I hear what you are saying, and thanks for your input, but didn't see any answers to my questions. I didn't want a debate, just wanted to see how many "legal", "illegal" or "ethical" anglers we have on here. Also, based on answers received, wanted to get a "visual" of what the water (or coolers) would look like.

[ang81]

Circle hooks

[27 sailfish]

OK , legal thing - clear cut ,undersize can not be kept - whether gut hooked or not.

Right thing is to follow the law - move if too many little ones are being caught or switch lures / hooks to avoid hooking them deeply.

What would I do ? Move and hope to find slightly bigger fish.

[zkarr]

I have wrestled with this as well. I always let them go. I have contemplated keeping them and letting go the "true keepers" that are lip hooked and will survive. Never done it though.

[rj]

What is the legal thing to do?

What is the "right" thing to do?

What do YOU do?





The legal thing to do is throw it back.
the right thing to do is the legal thing.
I would do both.

[kidz]

Cut the line to the hook and slip fish back into water. The law is the law, no sense keeping the fish so the police will fine you according to the law. I'm sure no one fishes with the intent to kill rockfish undersized. Now culling rockfish to go home with the biggest of the day, some probably do that.

[klgladhill]

The right thing to do oftens conflicts with the legal thing to do, Quite a quandry you posted. There are times when life gets so complicated that you simply have to adjust. The only "legal" and "right" solution for your problem is to cease and desist the action creating the problem. Time to go bluefish and perch fishing.

[BayViews]

With a gut hooked 17 incher, about all you can do is cut the line leaving the hook in the fish. Release it and hope for the best. To me, that is both the legal and right thing to do. If you see it floating on the surface, there really isn't much you can do. Although tempting for some, I really don't think most would keep the fish and risk loosing their license. A real noble fisherman may also voluntarily count it toward their limit. The NC case just underscores the need for a multi state coordinated management program coupled with strong enforcement.

[kwk]

Y'all are being trapped by the scenario. I wouldn't live-line or chum. Not saying that those who do aren't ethical, but it's just not something I would do.

[hengstthomas]

The legal thing to do is throw it back.
the right thing to do is the legal thing.
I would do both.
Exactly .. but then again I dont see a need to use any live or dead bait for Rockfish when they will takes lures just as quick .

[crabby and son]

Only one thing to do. Throw them back and move until you find legal size fish. Like RJ said:thumbup:............Gary

[LY2000]

I'd yell over to the slobs to start fishing like true sportsmen. They would get online and complain about a rude fishermen yelling at them on the water. Then the whole board would self police them and tell them, you know if you are gut hooking everything...you are doing just about everything wrong.

[Shawn Kimbro]

Anytime you talk fishing ethics it's a sliding scale. Fact is, what's ethical to one person may not be to another. I don't see anything wrong with anyone working to convince others to agree with something they consider ethical or unethical, or working to change a law that they consider unethical. In fact, I wish more people would do just that. Just because you disagree with someone on an ethical issue doesn't mean one person is bad, or the other is a snob. It just means you have an opportunity for discussion.

I think your question is a good one. In my opinion, the answer is to optimize your methods so you don't get in that situation in the first place.

Granted, it's inevitable that everyone will have to make a decision like the ones in your example at some point. I think you have to consider the situation in each case. There are a often gray areas. Fortunately, our system is designed so that even if you make a decision that is illegal, you are entitled to a hearing. Sometimes, rarely, an illegal decision might be justified. That's why we have judges, juries, and sentencing options. There's also the court of public opinion to consider. That, as we often see, can be far less merciful.

[donp]

What is the legal thing to do? Obey the law and return fish.

What is the "right" thing to do? Obey the law and return fish.

What do YOU do? Cut line with hook in fish and release. I then would switch out to a circle hook or bend barb over and continue fishing.

[mrobertson]

The law is the law

My biggest question - no matter how you are fishing, who wants to sit there catching undersized, small fish anyway?

I'd release any undersized fish but i wouldn't catch very many of them before i moved on looking for something bigger.

[C-Hawk18]

OK , legal thing - clear cut ,undersize can not be kept - whether gut hooked or not.

Right thing is to follow the law - move if too many little ones are being caught or switch lures / hooks to avoid hooking them deeply.

What would I do ? Move and hope to find slightly bigger fish.

Is the “right” thing to follow the law? In all situations? Or just this situation? What about the NC situation?


Just because it is legal - does not make it right.

Lot of nice fish there that will not spawn come spring time.


Is this the same “Sailfish”? Those 16”er’s won’t spawn in a couple years will they?



The legal thing to do is throw it back.
the right thing to do is the legal thing.
I would do both.

Rich - just an FYI I posted this based on the above quote…….note some think the “right” and “legal” are different……apparently in some situations.


The right thing to do oftens conflicts with the legal thing to do, Quite a quandry you posted. There are times when life gets so complicated that you simply have to adjust. The only "legal" and "right" solution for your problem is to cease and desist the action creating the problem. Time to go bluefish and perch fishing.

Kevin - someone who knows the “right” thing to do.


A real noble fisherman may also voluntarily count it toward their limit.

At least you know what you SHOULD do.


Y'all are being trapped by the scenario. I wouldn't live-line or chum. Not saying that those who do aren't ethical, but it's just not something I would do.

Trapped them? They can’t answer as to what they would do? If you don’t live-line (or can't put yourself in that situation) then don’t answer. If you do then where’s the trap?


Only one thing to do. Throw them back and move until you find legal size fish. Like RJ said:thumbup:............Gary

Gary - Ok that‘s good - doing what is “legal” (but might not be right) and also the reason for my post……ref - Skips quote at the top and reason for post


I'd yell over to the slobs to start fishing like true sportsmen. They would get online and complain about a rude fishermen yelling at them on the water. Then the whole board would self police them and tell them, you know if you are gut hooking everything...you are doing just about everything wrong.

OK - Someone who may sometime get a clue


Anytime you talk fishing ethics it's a sliding scale. Fact is, what's ethical to one person may not be to another. I don't see anything wrong with anyone working to convince others to agree with something they consider ethical or unethical, or working to change a law that they consider unethical. In fact, I wish more people would do just that. Just because you disagree with someone on an ethical issue doesn't mean one person is bad, or the other is a snob. It just means you have an opportunity for discussion.

I think your question is a good one. In my opinion, the answer is to optimize your methods so you don't get in that situation in the first place.

Granted, it's inevitable that everyone will have to make a decision like the ones in your example at some point. I think you have to consider the situation in each case. There are a often gray areas. Fortunately, our system is designed so that even if you make a decision that is illegal, you are entitled to a hearing. Sometimes, rarely, an illegal decision might be justified. That's why we have judges, juries, and sentencing options. There's also the court of public opinion to consider. That, as we often see, can be far less merciful.

Shawn - I’d give you an A- only because you didn’t actually answer what YOU would do with that fish, but you provided an answer as to the “right” thing to do.


What is the legal thing to do? Obey the law and return fish.

What is the "right" thing to do? Obey the law and return fish.

What do YOU do? Cut line with hook in fish and release. I then would switch out to a circle hook or bend barb over and continue fishing.

Don - even though I don’t agree with your “right” thing to do you reinforced my starting of this thread. (See Skip’s quote above)


The law is the law

My biggest question - no matter how you are fishing, who wants to sit there catching undersized, small fish anyway?

I'd release any undersized fish but i wouldn't catch very many of them before i moved on looking for something bigger.

Almost “right” (IMHO - and since it’s MY post that’s what counts in my mind) at least you would move on.
But this post was about the “LAW” and what is “RIGHT” (See Skip’s quote above)
I understand different people “want” to do different things. I was asking for responses in ref to a certain situation.

[Hockleyneck]

I would throw it back although it would bother me. I use circle hooks LL and did not have that issue, but get your point.

[C-Hawk18]

but get your point.

I think you "almost" get it......see klgladhill reply above

[Glub]

I'd go crabbing.

[kwk]

So, Mr. Socrates, how is stopping doing something somehow the right answer when not doing it in the first place is considered the wrong answer?

[klgladhill]

KWK,

What you missed in the question, was that the act had already occurred. That being the point of such debate and conversation, to make people ponder difficult thoughts.

[Shellback CVA59]

This board is made up of a lot of dedicated fisherman with many answers on how they would avoid gut hooking smaller fish in the first place. But what about the others, meat hunters, inexperienced, or folks that don't give a damn? They could stay in a school of small fish and kill 10 for every legal fish they hook. Personally I rather see them keep a small fish that's been gut hooked towards their limit, than throw 10 others back. Myself, I follow the letter of the law, but sure don't like throwing one back you know won't survive. Some say nothing goes to waste though.

[blue lou]

I think the cammo hats are leeching through. WTF?

[kwk]

KWK,

What you missed in the question, was that the act had already occurred. That being the point of such debate and conversation, to make people ponder difficult thoughts.

That's what I call being trapped by the scenario. Someone who intentionally does not do something in order to avoid bad consequences has already pondered the question and has elected not to place himself in a situation where the bad consequence may occur.

[Rattletrap]

If a 17" gut hooked rockfish goes belly up in the middle of the bay and nobody is there to see it, is it really dead?

[C-Hawk18]

So, Mr. Socrates, how is stopping doing something somehow the right answer when not doing it in the first place is considered the wrong answer?

I just asked 3 (What I thought were easy enough)questions. But you failed to answer any of them, twice.


KWK,

What you missed in the question, was that the act had already occurred. That being the point of such debate and conversation, to make people ponder difficult thoughts.

Kevin - KWK is so into personally attacking me that he was blinded and didn’t even see the questions


This board is made up of a lot of dedicated fisherman with many answers on how they would avoid gut hooking smaller fish in the first place. But what about the others, meat hunters, inexperienced, or folks that don't give a damn? They could stay in a school of small fish and kill 10 for every legal fish they hook. Personally I rather see them keep a small fish that's been gut hooked towards their limit, than throw 10 others back. Myself, I follow the letter of the law, but sure don't like throwing one back you know won't survive. Some say nothing goes to waste though.

At least you got the right idea.


I think the cammo hats are leeching through. WTF?

WTF?….yeah WTF is your answer suppose to mean?


That's what I call being trapped by the scenario. Someone who intentionally does not do something in order to avoid bad consequences has already pondered the question and has elected not to place himself in a situation where the bad consequence may occur.

????? Is this directed again at ME? or those fishing?


If a 17" gut hooked rockfish goes belly up in the middle of the bay and nobody is there to see it, is it really dead?

So - I guess the answer would be to close the boating season while the Trawlers are out there fishing? (So that no one "sees" the fish? then it didn't happen?
Man you guys come up with some stuff.


So I guess maybe Skip was right? (but looks like he is a member of the “Do as I say, not as I do” crew)


What would I do ? Move and hope to find slightly bigger fish. - exactly what the Trawlers are LEGALLY doing

Answers:

Legal - Throw it back keep fishing till you get your limit……or the bigger fish that you are after
Right - Count the fish towards your limit and then stop fishing (for that species) once you reach it.


But yet 1 out of almost 20 guys didn’t get it “right”.

Amazing the responses you get then you present a situation when the "Shoe is on the other foot" huh?

[kwk]

Personally attacking you? Wow. Not at all. I would have thought that you'd approve of not live-lining at all in the circumstances you outlined. Guess I didn't understand whatever it is you're trying to do with this thread. Sorry to have tried to offer an alternative approach.

[kidz]

I think you made your answer the right one so you could put others in their place according to what you think. Everyone has the option to do what they want to do. There is no correct answer. If you gut hook an illegal fish while fishing, it is not your fault. It's part of fishing and no one can make that stop happening, Your comparision to whats happening in N.C. is way out there. What they are doing is legal, but harming the future of rockfishing . If your answer means a moritorium on rockfishing, well, in my opinion, it will happen only when the rockfish population is bordering on extinction. The powers in charge are reactionary only when signs show the rockfish are in deep trouble.

[rgminer]

Release the fish, it's the legal thing to do. If you are trying to equate gut hooking an undersized fish with commercial trawlers culling legal fish just so they can get their biggest 50 you are comparing apples and oranges. Yes I know what they are doing is legal, immoral, but legal...The law in NC shouldn't be a number of fish, but weight of the fish, culling should be illegal and once the fishermen reach their weight limit they are finished. No one catches hundreds and hundreds of undersize fish that are gut hooked. These guys on the trawlers are destroying the fishery. A relative few guthooked under sized fish isn't going to do that.

[C-Hawk18]

What they are doing is legal, but harming the future of rockfishing .

Kidz - maybe you misunderstood my point. Point in the above scenario was that the same exact thing is happening. Legal, but harming.

While most don't think it's on the same "scale" was the trawlers I believe that it is, and if one is wrong then the other is just as wrong.

If every recreational angler gut hooks just one striper per year how many fish would that be? I'd venture to bet that the pile would be way bigger then that of the trawlers.


No one catches hundreds and hundreds of undersize fish that are gut hooked. These guys on the trawlers are destroying the fishery. A relative few guthooked under sized fish isn't going to do that.

rgminer - see my above response about just 1 per angler,then add all the east coast states together.

Anybody know how many striper anglers there are on the east coast?

[rickhoffer]

Totally agree with using the circle hooks. Was out on a charter this summer, used my own rod and gear (circle hook). Once we started LL we limited quickly. Everyone just wanted to keep catching after our limit for some C&R and many small ones were being gut hooked and left floating. I told the Capt and everyone that I had plenty of circle hooks and they can use them, but nobody batted an eye. Finally the Capt had enough and told everyone sorry, were not going to just catch to kill and we headed in.

[C-Hawk18]

Everyone just wanted to keep catching after our limit for some C&R and many small ones were being gut hooked and left floating.

Exactly what I'm talking about, but it seems like most people on this board always want to blame everyone else.

WE aren't part of the problem, it's all THEM.

[kidz]

Without numbers or pictures to back up what you are saying, it's is only your opinion. Look at the pictures coming out of N.C. and you see a massive killing of big rockfish. The pictures are factual evidence of what those commercial fisherman are doing to help destroy the future of fishing for rockfish. I read what you are saying, but still find it hard to believe unintentional gut hooking is the same as what they are doing. On a good note, there is a post saying that a local tv station has done a story on the killing of rock in N.C.

[C-Hawk18]

Without numbers or pictures to back up what you are saying, it's is only your opinion.

Yep you're 100% correct-------there is ZERO MORTAILITY of RECREATIONAL STRIPERS because there are NO PICS.....thanks for reinforcing my...

WE aren't part of the problem, it's all THEM.


but still find it hard to believe unintentional gut hooking is the same as what they are doing.

Maybe not "the same", but the same end result.....or (disclaimer - without "Pic Proof" IMHO) much greater numbers of dead fish.......both "legal" but maybe not "right".


Anybody got the east coast "Recreational Anglers" numbers yet?

[kidz]

Wow, again you show no flexibility on this matter. In the last couple of years , I"ve seen less dead rock floating then the years before. It's a known fact that gut hooked fish die. Relax, serious fisherman do the right thing to preserve fishing for the future. At least I hope they do. You are entitled to your opinion just like everyone is entitled to theirs. Hopefully .the powers in charge will do the right thing to protect the future for rockfishing.Both recs and comms will have to do whatever it takes to save all fisheries from declining anymore. Nothing personal, just my opinion.

[C-Hawk18]

Relax, serious fisherman do the right thing to preserve fishing for the future.

Again the word "right" comes up. I wonder why almost 1000 people have viewed this thread, but only 20 or so have responded with what "they" would do? Is it fear that it might not be considered as "right'? Who knows? Maybe just the same 20 people have looked 50 times each.

Just wondering - What percentage of the total recreational anglers would you estimate as "serious fisherman"? I only ask because I would have to say that the majority I run into are not in the "serious" group.


Both recs and comms will have to do whatever it takes to save all fisheries from declining anymore.

I know this, but doubt it will happen....on either "side".

Hopefully this post has provoked some thought into the other 900+ who have not responded.

BTW Kidz -No problem with your replies - Nothing you have posted in this thread has been taken personal, I just want to "open eyes" and make people "think" no matter how hard that might be.

[Francis]

Answers:

Legal - Throw it back keep fishing till you get your limit……or the bigger fish that you are after
Right - Count the fish towards your limit and then stop fishing (for that species) once you reach it.

To me, it's sad that when people think of rockfish, they still think of a "limit." I don't understand why rockish are seen as a piece of meat to throw in the box and not a living animal that is fun to catch fish, and release to be caught again. Until we stop seeing successful rockfishing as "putting your limit in the box" and start seeing them as a wonderful sportfish that is fun to catch, like a tarpon or largemouth for instance, we are always going to have these problems.

Out of college I worked on a charter boat, possessed an unlimited TFL in my name, and commercially fished for a living. I managed to make it a year. After spending so many of my younger years chasing these fish for fun, it disheartened me to be forced to see them as a ten dollar bill or a piece of meat. BTW-we almost exclusively livelined with spot when we hooked and lined and were more than succesful. This is a fun way to fish, and I still do it occasionally, especially when the bigger ones are stacked up and livelining catches the 30" plus fish in the summer, but it's so much more fun to catch them early morning on topwater or on a jig. I can't understand why people are so meat crazed when it comes to rockfish and don't even think of them as a sportfish. I felt dirty catching them hook and line commercially, personally I don't even understand how these people can sleep at night doing it with nets. You're not fishing, you're pulling living animals out of the water to make money. Let's call it what it is.

Just my 2 cents and my personal opinion. . .

[blue lou]

Kill 'em,....Kill 'em all!!!

[Francis]

And to answer your question.

After one or two undersized fish came up I would throw them back because I dont want a ticket but order the other five people on my boat to stop fishing. I would make some funny comment about we are losing too many prized spot catching tiny fish. I would throw the spot back in the barrell, take away their baitrunners, and give them stradics to start jigging bass assassins.

While they're jigging, I would monitor their success while calling the other fisherman, guides, and charter captains I know on the cell phone to find a better bite. Judging how my guys were doing compared to what reports I was getting on the phone, I would either keep them jiggin on small ones, or look for a better bite somewhere else. Not to be able to throw a keeper in the box, but so that my crew would be able to have the experience of catching better quality fish and seeing what a great sportfish a rockfish can be.

[crabby and son]

To me, it's sad that when people think of rockfish, they still think of a "limit." I don't understand why rockish are seen as a piece of meat to throw in the box and not a living animal that is fun to catch fish, and release to be caught again. Until we stop seeing successful rockfishing as "putting your limit in the box" and start seeing them as a wonderful sportfish that is fun to catch, like a tarpon or largemouth for instance, we are always going to have these problems.

Out of college I worked on a charter boat, possessed an unlimited TFL in my name, and commercially fished for a living. I managed to make it a year. After spending so many of my younger years chasing these fish for fun, it disheartened me to be forced to see them as a ten dollar bill or a piece of meat. BTW-we almost exclusively livelined with spot when we hooked and lined and were more than succesful. This is a fun way to fish, and I still do it occasionally, especially when the bigger ones are stacked up and livelining catches the 30" plus fish in the summer, but it's so much more fun to catch them early morning on topwater or on a jig. I can't understand why people are so meat crazed when it comes to rockfish and don't even think of them as a sportfish. I felt dirty catching them hook and line commercially, personally I don't even understand how these people can sleep at night doing it with nets. You're not fishing, you're pulling living animals out of the water to make money. Let's call it what it is.

Just my 2 cents and my personal opinion. . .

Different people fish for different reasons. I fish for food and always try to get my limit. I do not fish that often and don't fish when I have enough in my freezer. I hunt for food and stop when I have enough. I don't see rock fish as a $10.00 bill but I do see them as a piece of meat. I don't see deer as Bambi but a piece of meat. It's the way I was raised. Nothing wrong with that in my opinion. I also think fishing and hunting is "fun." I understand commercial fishing as a way to make money. People who don't own a boat or fish, still like to eat fish. The fishery just needs to be "regulated" so it remains stable for the future. I completely understand how you feel also............Gary

[Francis]

I understand it's a complicated issue. I like to keep a fish here an there too. I have eaten yellow perch the last three nights. I just wish more people saw rockfish like largemouth. You are allowed five per day most places in MD, but most people think of them as fun to catch primairly, not good to eat. I think the population would be better off and everyone would be able to catch more if they made that mental adjustment.

I undersand your comment about commercial fishing but I don't own a hunting license or a rifle but like deer. I can't buy it in the grocery store in MD. I have to have it shipped from somewhere like Colorado.

[GBauer]

I think the thing that bothers me is that i was raised to eat anything i killed. If I was going to pull the trigger on an animal than there needed to be a really good reason. I am mainly a C&R fisherman, but do keep fish now and then. I can remember back to when i got my first BB gun. I killed a dove in my backyard. You better believe my dad told me to start plucking. (Pretty tasty actually). Like many on this board, i hate to kill anything if it’s going to go to waste. I don’t get a real joy out of killing even if I’m going to eat it. For me, its about being out on the water with friends, the chase, and maybe even catching a few. Not the kill. So pitching a sublegal, dead fish back does really bother me. I don’t like seeing something I killed, not get used. It would be great if everyone treated the bay and its resources with respect, and we didn’t need all these laws to govern how much and when. But that is far from the case. So yes, i do my best to release the fish with as little harm and then move if the school seems small. If we are keeping, i like to keep a spot open for a monster (haha) plus for a fish that is legal, and hooked deep.

I sound like some hippy, mother earth, weirdo! wow

Just my thoughts. I got a little off topic. Sorry.

[stman]

This post makes absolutely no sense!

You are trying to ask fishermen if they would keep illegal/undersize rock. What you should be asking is how many us here will break the law like these guys in NC in the same way. That scenerio would be already having your legal limit and keep fishing for larger fish only to throw dead fish out of the box for bigger ones caught.

I agree with Sailfish 27 move on to better fish or try different tactics... it is the least you can do if your guests traveled 200 miles plus.

[Southerly]

the main reason i wrote in is to provide link for what i believe to be current best practice for catch and release technique :

http://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/articles/catch_release.html

maybe you know all that already, or maybe you're someone else and there's good info for you - that's only reason for providing the link.

but i feel like i should answer the question if i'm writing. as i understand it -the situation is 'it's already happened'. by whatever methods, good intentions, best practice, tackle, etc.; each guy finds themself to have been responsible for 2 shorts floating. i wouldn't have to really 'think' about it. i'd feel kind of crappy and stop what i was doing. and i more or less expect anyone reading this would probably do the same. maybe what comes next is the question?

for me, that would probably be enough to take the fun out of fishing for the day. might be a good time for a boat ride to kent moor for lunch. i can't see how making more floaters would be entertainment for my out-of-state guests either, and everyone likes a boat ride.

keeping shorts is plain illegal and if i was the one issuing tickets, 'accidentally killed' as an excuse wouldn't slow me down much (unless the kids were all crying or something). judges and attorneys are better at mulling that stuff over. either way; out-of-town guests probably wouldn't be very entertained with that scenario either.

maybe the question should have been - what if money had been involved? we see in the papers all the time how ethical conduct slips away when there's enough money involved.

[crabby and son]

I understand it's a complicated issue. I like to keep a fish here an there too. I have eaten yellow perch the last three nights. I just wish more people saw rockfish like largemouth. You are allowed five per day most places in MD, but most people think of them as fun to catch primairly, not good to eat. I think the population would be better off and everyone would be able to catch more if they made that mental adjustment.

I undersand your comment about commercial fishing but I don't own a hunting license or a rifle but like deer. I can't buy it in the grocery store in MD. I have to have it shipped from somewhere like Colorado.

Give me a call next season and I will see that you have some venison! I believe we have talked before and you grew up 1/4 mile from me. I was at 2921 Powder Mill Rd. and remember you saying that you lived at the bottom of the hill by Whales head.Nice to have a conversation with differing opinions w/o a pissing match!..........Gary

[Timbo]

When I fished in Alaska, the regulation booklet was so big the running joke was you needed to take a lawyer with you when you went fishing.

[Matt]

What is the legal thing to do?

What is the "right" thing to do?

What do YOU do?


The legal thing is to return undersized fish to the water. The right thing is to issue tags and require anglers to use a tag on any mortally damaged fish regardless of size. That would prevent reckless targeting or undersized fish with bait. What I do is fish mostly with lures and switch to single barbless hooks when fish are short.

[C-Hawk18]

This post makes absolutely no sense!

You are trying to ask fishermen if they would keep illegal/undersize rock. What you should be asking is how many us here will break the law like these guys in NC in the same way. That scenerio would be already having your legal limit and keep fishing for larger fish only to throw dead fish out of the box for bigger ones caught.

I agree with Sailfish 27 move on to better fish or try different tactics... it is the least you can do if your guests traveled 200 miles plus.

Maybe the post went over your head? What the trawlers in NC are doing IS NOT ILLEGAL.

If you read the reply from Southerly right below yours I think you may understand what I was looking for.
If you actually read my post I think you would see it was made because of the statement made about "Being legal not necessarily making it right".
I did not expect(nor hope) that many would respond saying they would keep the short fish. I also did not expect (but did hope) many would reply like Southerly and Klgladhill. I did expect that many would reply that they would keep fishing, looking for bigger fish and not consider the effect a dead short would have on the population.......and that seems to be what I got.

[Southerly]

i didn't read all the posts in between 1st, and mine, so i want to score the big points for getting the 'right' answer w/o peeking, but am willing to sacrifice those points for making a 'hair trigger' posting. mostly i wanted to post link to dnr's best practice for catch and release.

http://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/ar...h_release.html (http://dnr.maryland.gov/fisheries/ar...h_release.html)


i think that's current advice, but best practice could be improved/changed as time goes along and we have an obligation to keep up.

otherwise, the scenario for the original question was fairly straightforward, but i think those that said they would avoid getting into that situation in the first place, or would stop laying waste to nature, and begin fishing with best practice technique aren't wrong.

pretend you've been a bad guy - what would you do next?

best practice or not, i don't think most fishermen are out laying waste to nature on a daily basis so multiplying it out across the board isn't fair. it's like saying each commercial guy poaches 100's tons of fish and multiplying it out across the number of licenses. need a lot of real evidence before believing that's the case.

maybe i'm wrong, but i think a lot of guys around here (neighborhood) put a sticker on their boat year after year, just in case their grandkids or family visit. and then when they do, fishing probably doesn't work out very well anyway.

re "That scenerio would be already having your legal limit and keep fishing for larger fish only to throw dead fish out of the box for bigger ones caught." i think it's a good point since the NC thing is on our minds.

for a Md recreational fishermen, i think that scenario would be not just unethical, i believe culling striped bass (recreational regs) is illegal in Md.

Mr C-Hawk18 - it's easy to find fault with what the other guy's doing even if it's legal, so i appreciate your question for providing some focus on some difficult issues.

[Southern Grin]

Matt, I think that is a great idea ! Having the rec's tag all their fish. Then perhaps we'll start seeing recreatonal fishermen doing time in Federal Prison, as well as the impact that recreational fishing is putting on the Striped Bass stock.

[Matt]

Matt, I think that is a great idea ! Having the rec's tag all their fish. Then perhaps we'll start seeing recreatonal fishermen doing time in Federal Prison, as well as the impact that recreational fishing is putting on the Striped Bass stock.

Not sure how a recreational tag system would cause or lead to any noteworthy Federal crime. When a man loads his truck with illegal fish and crosses state lines, that’s a federal crime. If a man puts an illegal fish in his cooler, that’s usually just a matter for the State. When the striped bass moratorium ended, Maryland used a recreational tag system, to measure the harvest. I recall this system led to some abrupt early closures, as the estimated harvest quickly exceeded what was considered sustainable. It was a responsible scientific way to manage the fishery. Since then we abandoned any kind of meaningful system of measuring recreational harvest. As a result we're back in a nosedive, virtually freefalling back to pre-moratorium levels. We're all to blame, but I think its fair to say (over and over) Maryland's DNR fishery group ignored its responsibility to protect the stock. We are the primary producer State. Instead of maintaining measures to prevent another collapse, our regulators opted for another round of uncontrolled harvesting. Twoaday charter fisheries, baiting and harvesting as many immature fish as possible as quickly as possible. Never in history has such a plan worked. If Maryland had stayed with a tagging program, we wouldn't be where we are today.