MSSA Gunning For Striped Bass Gamefish

[SilverFox]

Yes-sir-ree. Good move.

DNR is awaiting a "white paper" from Bill Miles, a lobbyist for the Maryland Saltwater Sportsmen's Association, concerning striped bass allocations between recreational anglers and watermen. Right now, the annual harvest is split 60-40, but MSSA wants to take a large chunk of the watermen's share and dedicate it to "conservation," a back-door attempt to turn striped bass into a game fish. Said Griffin, "I have never supported game-fish status."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/outdoors/bs-sp-thomson-outdoors-column0116-20110113,0,110301.story

[klgladhill]

Striped Bass becoming gamefish; not happening anytime in the next decade.

[B-Faithful]

Candy offered her opinion. However MSSA has NOT asked for gamefish status. They have asked that DNR re-evaluate the rockfish allocation here in MD. The current fisheries management plan is over 20 years old and in need of new consideration. It is the MSSA view point that the current allocation is not appropriate based on the economic and social needs of the state. See the MSSA website for their positions.

[LILY]

Real easy solution. Rec. angler allowed to kill 1 fish over 40 inches during the spring trophy season. Then he is allowed to also kill 1 fish over 40 inches during the Fall season. This way they can get a citation and be done with it. Better yet I like what Virginia did. Go to 40 lbs. to receive a citation.


Get rid of the current BS or it will be over real soon and it will be a sad day.

No comm. fishing period.:nono::nono::nono::nono::nono::nono:

Charter boats are only allowed 2 trips per day but must follow the rec rules. 1 fish over 40 inches for the angler in spring and 1 in the fall.

Have you ever cleaned a fish @ 40 inches or bigger? You split tail the filet and you throw away most of it anyway. Anyone that states they cook the whole filet and eats the gray meat is eating the blood line and thats what gives rockfish such a fishy taste. They truly are not that good of eating fish anyway.


Phil(lily):yes:

Just my .02 cents

We must preserve our breeding stock.

[5th Tuition]

I'm not an MSSA member, and I have no real knowledge of what MSSA is going to ask for in the "white paper"; however, I don't think it was right for Candy to interject her opinion into the article. The fact that she states it's a back door approach to gamefish status is simply her subjective opinion, not an objective fact.

Had she said "in my opinion, it is a backdoor approach to gamefish status"; that would have been ok. But she didn't!!!!

5th (Marty)

[Fish nut]

To my knowledge for the sake of transparency the MSSA posted a letter on there web site on November 11, 2010. In addition, this letter was published in the MSSA Mag and sent to there members. I have even seen this letter posted on various internet message boards since then. I have read it multiple times, no where in the document does it ask for Game fish status. Without any contact from the authors of the white paper that Candy references. I would assume if there is a document, it follows the intent of the letter written on November 11, 2010.

In Candy’s article she leads Secertary Griffin to the statement about Gamefish Status.

Did he really want that statement published?

Did we get a little media sensationalism injected into the article with this statement?

[B-Faithful]

For those that have not seen the MSSA letter. Here is a link to it: http://www.mssa.net/newsarticles/reallocation_Nov11_2010.pdf

Since the letter Bill Miles had an article published in the Maryland Daily Record titled "Advancing a Recreational Fishing Strategy for the 21st Century". The text to the article can be found here: http://www.mssa.net/newsarticles/recreationalStrategies_Nov2010.pdf

From speaking to Dave Smith and a MSSA board member, gamefish status is not what the MSSA has asked for.

[Francis]

We really need to hire some of the guys that made bass tournaments so popular to change the view points of rockfish. . .

Bass used to be a complete blood sport but because of the allure of tournaments they changed viewpoints from a slab of meat to a gamefish that's fun to catch for sport.

Now, it's illegial to commercially kill largemouth but yet there are probably more people fishing for them, and spending money on trying to catch them, than anything else on any given day in Maryland. Now nobody even thinks of bass as a meat fish, only a sport fish which is fun to catch and primairly should be released.

[Shawn Kimbro]

Bill Miles' article in the Maryland Daily Record is well-written and makes it very clear that MSSA is not asking to stop the commercial harvest of striped bass in the Maryland portion of the Bay. What recreational angler could disagree with an effort to better manage striped bass so more people will get out on the Bay and go fishing?

[Brandon]

B-Faithful/ Greg I think explained it clearly, and to support his statement I will say that all my communications with MSSA is that they are not seeking gamefish status. What they are seeking is a re-allocation of the resource to shift more to the recreational sector.

What's clear to me is that the striped bass population is not as healthy as it used to be and I can see some cuts being handed down by the ASMFC at some point. I believe they have moved their striped bass stock assessment up a full year because of all the alarms going off up and down the coast. If state allocations are cut MSSA's initative could very well help/preserve recreational anglers access to the resource.

Speaking on conserving striped bass, I think one thing we could do in MD to help conserve striped bass is to ban nets. This would eliminate a lot of problems we have here in MD:

1) MD would save a lot of money in a time when budget cuts are needed
We spend a lot of time and money enforcing things like tags on fish from pound nets, how long nets are etc. If there are no nets it makes things easy, if you have a net it is illegal, end of story.

2) Cheating happens on an Industrial Level with nets
When cheating goes on with nets it happens on an "industrial" level. One illegal gill net floating around the Hoopers Island area of the bay, or any other area, will wipe out far more then any hook and line commercial fisherman does or can.

3) When Nets get Lost they Ghost Fish
When a net gets lost it ghost fishes and potentially kills a lot of fish unnecessary. Then NRP has to spend money to find the net and get it out of the water.

It's hard to argue with places like Florida the banned nets and have seen their fisheries flourish. Heck just look at a few guys from this forum who go down there, or have moved there to go fishing. I've heard all the rhetoric about how this and that net is efficient and clean, I've also experienced some insane fishing in places like Florida where nets were banned. It does not mean no commercial fishing, it just means no nets.

Just one man's opinion:soapbox:

[B-Faithful]

good post Brandon!

[drewzim]

This wouldn't happen to be the same Bill Miles (who said he was standing up on his own behalf) who rallied to put an end to ALL preseason catch and release at the infamous SFAC/TFAC meeting? Got to love lobbyist.

[5th Tuition]

This wouldn't happen to be the same Bill Miles (who said he was standing up on his own behalf) who rallied to put an end to ALL preseason catch and release at the infamous SFAC/TFAC meeting? Got to love lobbyist.

And; isn't it the same meeting where they DOUBLED the amount of net the comm.'s could put out so they could "get off the water faster".
I'm not supporting nets, just shaking my head on the way things go down.
5th (Marty)

[Shawn Kimbro]

This wouldn't happen to be the same Bill Miles (who said he was standing up on his own behalf) who rallied to put an end to ALL preseason catch and release at the infamous SFAC/TFAC meeting? Got to love lobbyist.

You know what they say about politics and bedfellows....

[Fish nut]

You know what they say about politics and bedfellows....

Yes you are correct Shawn. It is hard for me show constraint when discussing these issues knowing what politics are involved.

Trying to figure out our fishery management is sometimes similar to a putting a jigsaw puzzle together. What piece goes where and how does it influence the overall scheme of the puzzle.

The New stripped Bass Stock assessment has been moved up a year and is set for November 2011 per” Martin Gary Dnr”

[27 sailfish]

Be interesting to see how this all plays out. It is a real shame how politics overshadows common sense and science in fishery management.

No doubt as the overall population of Rock goes down - lot more fighting will happen over getting a piece of the pie.

One idea - a $5.00 Rockfish stamp - money goes to buying out netters. They still get cash to live on but fish get a break.

[Wild Bill]

Be interesting to see how this all plays out. It is a real shame how politics overshadows common sense and science in fishery management.

No doubt as the overall population of Rock goes down - lot more fighting will happen over getting a piece of the pie.

One idea - a $5.00 Rockfish stamp - money goes to buying out netters. They still get cash to live on but fish get a break.

Many guys would pay a whole lot more to buy out the netters. If the majority of people are convinced we need stripers in fish markets and restaurants (I am not), keep a comm H & L fishery.

[27 sailfish]

Wild Bill - I know you chase Rock up / down the coast.

Might be worth doing a tally sheet on your out of state expenses and sending to MSSA so their lobbyist can show just how much money Md lost - from just one angler.

If managed correctly - Md could offer great fishing to out of state fishermen and their families.
Being so close to DC could even be a selling point.
Using you as an example - fishermen will travel and lay out serious cash to catch nice Rockfish.

Good to see MSSA really stirring the pot - I heard some folks were not too happy with them.

[C-Hawk18]

We really need to hire some of the guys that made bass tournaments so popular to change the view points of rockfish. . .

Bass used to be a complete blood sport but because of the allure of tournaments they changed viewpoints from a slab of meat to a gamefish that's fun to catch for sport.

Now, it's illegial to commercially kill largemouth but yet there are probably more people fishing for them, and spending money on trying to catch them, than anything else on any given day in Maryland. Now nobody even thinks of bass as a meat fish, only a sport fish which is fun to catch and primairly should be released.

For BASS Tx's it's all about winning $$$$$$$$$$

[KJosenhans]

This is sort of a side note to the conversation - and not intended to start a fight, just dialog - but is a "recreational" charterboat any different than a "commercial" hook & line fisherman? Or any other commercial rock-fisherman? You might be surprised at the poundage totals taken by each group. I'm not taking sides, just wondering where you draw the line.

[B-Faithful]

Charter boats are merely facilitating recreational fishermen to fish. Economic and social benefits to the state are far greater.

Hook and line commercially caught fish net a few dollars per pound. How much do you think is spent per pound on fish caught on a charter? Under the current and out-dated allocation our managers are selling our gold resource at copper prices on the commercial side.

[Wild Bill]

Wild Bill - I know you chase Rock up / down the coast.

Might be worth doing a tally sheet on your out of state expenses and sending to MSSA so their lobbyist can show just how much money Md lost - from just one angler.

If managed correctly - Md could offer great fishing to out of state fishermen and their families.
Being so close to DC could even be a selling point.
Using you as an example - fishermen will travel and lay out serious cash to catch nice Rockfish.

Good to see MSSA really stirring the pot - I heard some folks were not too happy with them.

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I have no idea what I spend on fishing road trips. It is considerable. It may be depressing to do a tally, plus it may fall into the wrong hands. :eek2:

[27 sailfish]

Kjosehan - Charters follow the recs limits when they have a party - in summer it would be two over 18 inches. There is one fish allowed for the boat ??? - some take it - some do not. Most charters are 6 people so a limit would be 12 or 13 fish.

Hook / liners have a much higher limit. Some charter boats do both - hook / line when no party is on board.

Big difference though - a charterboat can still make money catching only a few fish. Some even do C/R trips. Hook / liner or netter needs a certain amount just to cover expenses. They only turn a profit by catching a lot of fish.

No doubt - a rec. caught fish is worth more. Cool thing is when they are C/R - fish can be caught again , in a way worth double.

[KJosenhans]

B-Faithful & Skip - I 100% agree with you both, but let me throw something else in here. During the past five years or so, which group has hurt the spawning biomass more, rec's or comm's? Think carefully about the MD spring trophy season, the MD fall "trophy" season, the CBBT, and especially the VA fall trolling season off VA Beach. Do you know how many trophy fish are kept by rec's/charter off VA Beach/NC alone? I don't, but it's a lot. In MD comm's are limited to fish 36" or less. Think VA is the same. How many fish over 30" are kept by rec's, charter or otherwise? I don't know the answer, but I would like to compare it to the comm. catch over 30. Again, I can't really take sides in this until someone can answer these questions for me.

[B-Faithful]

I agree that there are other problems outside of the maryland fishery. I do not like the fact that each angler can take 2 large fish coast wide per trip or the large amount of illegal fishing. However, it is important to focus on this issue that has been asked by the MSSA to consider and what Maryland should be doing with its allocation.

In considering your question as it pertains to our fisheries, it is important to note that the spawning stock is also a direct result of recruitment. Given the fact that the watermen dont take fish over 36" and the allocation is close to 53/47% based on lbs, it is quite possible commercial fishing takes more fish from maryland bay waters than the recreational side. Given this take and considering recruitment into the spawning stock, a good debate could be enacted. However, the recreational take on the fish has benefited our state far more both economically and socially. Therefore it can easily be said that since the benefits for recreational fishing are far greater (as you have agreed) that reductions on the Maryland impact on the striped bass populations should come from the commercial side first. Because the lure of catching and keeping large fish is a big draw to recreational angling, I believe it is important for maryland to facilitate that as much as is sustainable through our take. Given the fact that we do have such a large commercial fishery that devalues the use of our resource, I believe reductions should come from there before we reduce Maryland citizens opportunity to harvest migrant fish recreationally, especially considering our creel per angler is one. Should Maryland re-evaluate its current allocation to more beneficial and appropriate levels and further reductions need to be made, than areas of the recreational fishery should evaluate its regulations here.

of course these are just my views. I am not on the board of the mssa or speak for the organization.. I am just one member.

[Fischadler]

However, it is important to focus on this issue that has been asked by the MSSA. of course these are just my views. I am not on the board of the mssa or speak for the organization.. I am just one member.

Why do you believe it's important to focus on the MSSA views then?
Your never ending dissertation is beyond comprehension. Keep up the good work and maybe with your help we will make Stripers a gamefish after all.
And I agree, you are one Member.

[KJosenhans]

B-Faithful - I agree to a point. Here is my take. I agree with you that we shouldn't wait for VA (or any other state for that matter) to get their act together. Maryland has it's problems and needs to worry about MD. I'll take that a step further. The recreational fishery is flawed and we shouldn't wait for the commercial side to come around. My opinion, for the past 5 years or more, we as rec's have taken too many big fish out of the system. The 28" trophy size is too small. One or two trophy fish(say 34"+) per year, not day, should be enough for anyone. Take a picture of the rest and release them. The spring season begins too early. Add ten days to it. On the commercial end - Would I like to see the gill nets go? Possibly. But we will just push the comm. to another method or species. I think we can accomplish what we need to do with shorter seasons. Commercial catch limits are too hard to enforce while the season is open. Not enough manpower. A closed season stops most of the illegal fishing.

[Brandon]

Kevin

You bring up some good points for discussion. What I would say is that the gear type differentiates them. I am not anti commercial fishing, but anti nets. When cheating going on with nets or a net is lost the damage is at an "industrial" level. If you have a commercial hook and line fishery and you lose a lure to a fish you have one fish effected, lose a let and the impact is much greater.

When it comes to who catches more fish, clearly the recs and charter boats do. However, if you look at what your ROI is per fish on a rec/charter boat vs commercial use I'd say from all the data I have seen your ROI is much higher for the recs use of the resource. I think Greg sums it up when he says we're selling gold at copper prices. At the end of the day what we are talking about here for better or worse is what is the highest ROI for the use of the resource. Take a present day example, Yellow Perch, how much business is being brought to NE MD with the resurgence of yellow perch. Imagine if we had as many striped bass as we did in 1990 when the moratorium was lifted. The fishing was too good for people not to go. Heck we even had a strong fly fishing community because the average fly angler could go out and catch some stripers. Now the effort has increased to a point where it gets discouraging for people. Are getting rid of nets the total answer, no, but will it help, I have to believe it would help. All you have to do is look at what getting rid of nets did for multiple species in FL.

[Brandon]

Kevin

You're fast at the keyboard tonight:computer::))

To your point about recs catching MD. If my memory serves me correctly the recs/charters in MD rarely ever reach or catch our allocated quota. The Spring fishery is treated differently as you know and not on a quota anymore. The size limit and timing are worthy discussion points for that fishery. But take that fishery out of the discussion and look at the recs/charters catch the rest of the season and we do not reach our quota. Flip sides to the commercial side and they make sure they catch every last fish and then some.

[KJosenhans]

I agree Brandon. I've always been a strong proponent of commercial hook & line fishing as the only method of commercial fishing in the bay. Better product and better price for the waterman. My intent in starting this line of questioning was not to defend the commercial guy - though it may have appeared that way - but to point out that the recreational catch limits/seasons are just as much to blame.

[KJosenhans]

Then the quota is too high. I don't see how we can talk about the striper fishery and not talk about the spring trophy season. As to the commercial side, the state allows them time to catch their quota. DNR keeps extending seasons, daily pound limits, etc., etc. until they hit their limit. Like I said, shut down the season. Why do they have to reach their quota anyway?

[Francis]

For BASS Tx's it's all about winning $$$$$$$$$$

Exactly! They have placed value on catching and releasing for sport. Not keeping for money.

[Francis]

Many guys would pay a whole lot more to buy out the netters. If the majority of people are convinced we need stripers in fish markets and restaurants (I am not), keep a comm H & L fishery.

No doubt! My sentiments exactly, to a tee.

[Francis]

but to point out that the recreational catch limits/seasons are just as much to blame.

Sorry to respond to the same post three times but I keep seeing posts I want to respond to. Agreed, 100 percent. I think recs are killing way too many fish as well. Keeping two cows in the Ocean is crazy to me. I would much rather see the entire Atlantic Coast catch and release ONLY, using only single barbless hooks, but opening up the EEZ. My guess is the fishing would be so good, that even more people would go fishing, even more money would be spent, and the fishery as a whole would just be incredible.

What saddens me is that MD somehow likes to ban catch and release fishing as much as catch and kill fishing. I think catch and release fishing should be promoted, and catch and kill should definitly be cut back everywhere!

[Brandon]

Kevin

You make good points and it's hard not to talk about the trophy season. But, as you know, the trophy season is managed differently and arguably is a different population of fish. If MD cuts back on that season any which way (numbers of fish or dates) it might make those of us in MD feel better as if we are doing something, but I am not sure it has any impact on the larger population because of the fact the population is managed on a coast wide basis. If we do not use those fish, some state will, so we'll really not be conserving anything, but rather giving the opportunity to catch those fish to another state. I'm not commenting that the way the system works is right, but rather how it works. If cutting back the season was really going to have a "conservation" impact I think it would make a lot of sense to have that discussion, but given the way the system works it really becomes an allocation discussion. If the fish aren't going to really be saved and going to get used by someone, why not Marylanders?

To talk some numbers that support your point that recreational anglers do have a major impact:
2009 Trophy Season Striped Bass Harvests (April 18-June 15)

Charter Boat Harvest: 27,128 (of these it is estimated that 5,945 are migratory striped bass , which is 22% of the charter sectors total catch during this season)

Recreational Angler Harvest: 160,367 (of these it is estimated that 38,810 are migratory striped bass, which is 24% of the recs total catch during this season)

What is boils down to I think is that if we want to have an impact on truely conserving striped bass we have to deal with the body that is responsible for its management which is the ASMFC. Maryland deals with allocating the allocation that the ASMFC gives it, as do all the other states. So to make an impact we really need to go to the ASMFC level. This way if/when we do make regulation changes in the name of conservation we can rest assured they will have a true impact and some fish be saved vs. the fish we save going to another state to catch.

[KJosenhans]

Please don't take this wrong Brandon, but your "use it or lose it" strategy sounds like my waterman friends. The coastal population and the MD population are one in the same. They're here in the spring and again in the fall. At least a third of our entire season. We supply the east coast the fish. If we take them out of the spawning cycle there are no fish for anyone. The juveniles are our resident fish, but if the spawn is poor there are no juveniles. It's all intertwined. Is that actually the company line at DNR - "use it or lose it?" If so, we need a change in philosophy.

The numbers show that 45,000 migratory fish were taken from the resource. These are the spawners. How many were caught before thay had a chance to spawn? The rest will never spawn again. A majority of fish that migrate out of the bay for the summer wind up back here in the fall, not all are kept up north. If we want to conserve we need to start here.

[Brandon]

Kevin

I do not mean to propagate the party line, I've come to the conclusion by understanding how the system works. I am not saying the system works or is good, but it's the system right now we have. I agree we have to start here in MD, but we also need support of the management of the entire population because if we just focus on us and other states are not also doing their part, what we do here is a drop in the bucket. Take what is going on down in NC right now, if NC does not change, all the good we do here is just wiped out by what they do there. Yes we took 45,000 migratory fish, but how many migratory fish were taken by all the other states all season? How many are being taken in NC right now and all big fish? Added to it, in theory it does not matter when a striper is taken out of the population. Whether that is before they spawn, after they spawn, or while they are spawning. Once removed a spawner is removed and it is one less. So if anyone along the coast catches a potential spawner at any time it's one less spawning fish we have.

I am not disagreeing with you at all about conservation and doing something to help the population. I just want that when we do something that it really has a true effect and not simply a perceived effect that makes us feel good and is undone by another state. Instead of focusing on just MD, I think we should focus on some ideas as others have thrown out in this thread, including yourself, that focus and effect the population management on a coast wide basis vs just a state basis. For that we have to go to the ASMFC level and we have to get engaged.

[SilverFox]

You all are dancin around the issue. You all win if MD has gamefish status for striped bass. Stop dancin around the pink elephant in the room about not wanting to put watermen out of business. A striped bass is worth more as a recreational fish then any other type. If you want to really do something in MD, make striped bass a gamefish, then you will have done something that matters.

[KJosenhans]

Good discussion Brandon. I'm not going to beat it into the ground. Your points are valid, but ASMFC hasn't shown me much. Too many cooks in the kitchen. They are always two to three years behind in their management efforts. They need to listen to people on the water and not wait for old numbers to come out. Interested to see what the 2010 Trophy Season numbers were. Things change fast on the water. Those are the numbers we should be looking at.

[Capt.Nick]

Yes-sir-ree. Good move.

DNR is awaiting a "white paper" from Bill Miles, a lobbyist for the Maryland Saltwater Sportsmen's Association, concerning striped bass allocations between recreational anglers and watermen. Right now, the annual harvest is split 60-40, but MSSA wants to take a large chunk of the watermen's share and dedicate it to "conservation," a back-door attempt to turn striped bass into a game fish. Said Griffin, "I have never supported game-fish status."
http://www.baltimoresun.com/sports/outdoors/bs-sp-thomson-outdoors-column0116-20110113,0,110301.story Here's a question for you.Since 1990 recs. have been allowed 2 fish.Last year,coms. hook n line were 'doubled" their creel from 200 to 400 a day.Why didn't recs. get to double there 2 a day creel to 4?Who did the math on this one?

[Capt.Nick]

That's lbs. per day not fish.

[uno]

Here's a question for you.Since 1990 recs. have been allowed 2 fish.Last year,coms. hook n line were 'doubled" their creel from 200 to 400 a day.Why didn't recs. get to double there 2 a day creel to 4?Who did the math on this one?

It's easy to spout garbage on the internet - hook & line weekly and seasonal quotas don't change after the season starts (nor do other commercial gear type quotas). Daily quotas can be increased, but the total for the week and the season still remains.
When the recs get a seasonal quota and a reliable reporting system, perhaps their allowances could be adjusted during the season as needed much like the commercial sector. There seems to be a lot of resistance to establishing a reliable recreational reporting system.

[uno]

Interesting chart directly from the ASMFC:
Which sector of the fishery needs to have their harvest reduced?

[C-Hawk18]

Exactly! They have placed value on catching and releasing for sport. Not keeping for money.

Francis - Your statement is (IMHO) 1/2 right.......replace the word "sport" with "MONEY. It's all about the MONEY isn't it? But it seems like commercials (making) money is bad but recreational's (making) money is good?


. You all win if MD has gamefish status for striped bass.

What about the MILLIONS of people in the US who do not have a boat, or do not fish, who want to eat rockfish? How do they (meaning the majority of the US population) "win"?
If people didn't want to eat rockfish then you wouldn't see the poaching that you saw in the sting last year where all those fish went to DC restautants would you? Do you think those restaurants would have bought those millions of $$$$$$ worth of rockfish if they didn't make money on them? (Here we go again with the money)


They need to listen to people on the water and not wait for old numbers to come out.

So which "group" of "fisherman" should they listen to?


Interesting chart directly from the ASMFC:
Which sector of the fishery needs to have their harvest reduced?

Uno - unfortunately on this board you will not get ANY positive response to this question......you know why?......because WE are not the problem THEY are........that's why.

[KJosenhans]

C-Hawk,

I would survey all groups, rec's and commercial. My intent on making that statement was that we need current information and not two year old data to manage the fishery.

[C-Hawk18]

C-Hawk,

I would survey all groups, rec's and commercial. My intent on making that statement was that we need current information and not two year old data to manage the fishery.

Couldn't they just review the reports submitted by each group of anglers?........wait .....sorry I forgot(not really) that every time the subject of Recreational Striper reporting comes up in Md it gets shot down. Did you see the response by rec's when NOAA required rec registration? God forbid they would require rec's to submit daily reports for landings like commercials are required to submit.

Doesn't the Commercial Striper season continue (or get cut short) each year based on what the daily landings reports reveal? When the limits are reached the season is shut down....right?

[KJosenhans]

To your first question, under the current policy, I'm included with the recreational quota as a fishing guide. I currently send weekly reports to MD DNR, VMRC and NOAA. Plus we have striper surveys, flounder surveys, etc. So I believe they have the charterboat end of the reporting covered. Commercials have reports as well. As to the everyday recreational angler, NOAA conducts dockside surveys, but I couldn't tell you about any individual reporting requirements. To be honest, I think you can get a pretty good survey of fish catches just by reading message boards like tidalfish. Let the folks getting paid for it do the surveys and reporting, not Joe fisherman. Government's too much into our lives now as it is. I think we can get what we need with the current system. My point is that we need to use current numbers. ASMFC should know by now what was caught in 2010 by rec. and com. fishermen. How long does it take to total it up on a computer? When you hear ASMFC say things like 'the latest figures we have are for 2009,' and here it is already 2011, well I wonder if they are computing on a chalkboard.

Commercial seasons are occasionally closed when daily and weekly quotas are met. However, at least in MD, the season will usually be reopened if the seasonal quota has not been achieved. Guess they don't want the market flooded all at once. Once the seasonal quota is reached the fishery is usually closed for that year.

[uno]

I think some people are missing the point. This thread was started because certain rec fishing groups (mssa for one) are trying to take the commercial quota away and reserve it for recreational purposes. The problem is: according to ASMFC statistics, which I posted above, the recreational sector is ALREADY responsible for 79% of the total catch/kill for the Atlantic coast. How much is enough?

[B-Faithful]

I think some people are missing the point. This thread was started because certain rec fishing groups (mssa for one) are trying to take the commercial quota away and reserve it for recreational purposes. The problem is: according to ASMFC statistics, which I posted above, the recreational sector is ALREADY responsible for 79% of the total catch/kill for the Atlantic coast. How much is enough?

I think you are missing a bit of the point too (even though you are addressing the allocation issue). What about here in Maryland? In lbs, the rec/commercial split is close to 53/47%. Given the fact that coms dont take fish over 36", it is quite possible that our relatively enormous commercial fishery actually takes more fish in numbers than the recreational side. Yet, our state benefits far more from its recreational fishery. Maryland alone makes up nearly 1/3 of the ENTIRE commercial take managed under the ASMFC! Maryland is behind in what most other states have recognized; which is that recreational fishing for striped bass is a far more beneficial use of the resource. As stated before, at the current allocation split our resource managers are selling our gold resource at copper prices. A realloctation may even stand to benefit some watermen by possibly raising the prices for their harvest by reducing supply in the market place.

[uno]

I think you are missing a bit of the point too (even though you are addressing the allocation issue). What about here in Maryland? In lbs, the rec/commercial split is close to 53/47%. Given the fact that coms dont take fish over 36", it is quite possible that our relatively enormous commercial fishery actually takes more fish in numbers than the recreational side. Yet, our state benefits far more from its recreational fishery. Maryland alone makes up nearly 1/3 of the ENTIRE commercial take managed under the ASMFC! Maryland is behind in what most other states have recognized; which is that recreational fishing for striped bass is a far more beneficial use of the resource. As stated before, at the current allocation split our resource managers are selling our gold resource at copper prices. A realloctation may even stand to benefit some watermen by possibly raising the prices for their harvest by reducing supply in the market place.

Total B.S. The numbers speak for themselves. Recs are already responsible for 79% of the mortality of the stock, and a HUGE percentage of that number are the largest, spawning cows which the commercial sector doesn't harvest. How the catch divides among the States doesn't matter.

[mlag]

, and a HUGE percentage of that number are the largest, spawning cows which the commercial sector doesn't harvest.

I guess you have forgotten already about all the reported poaching incidents with "tails trimmed" on fish over 36 inches, and reports of "oversize fish" hidden in cabins of boats of commercial netters. The usual response is that this was just a "small"....."local"...problem. Well that's where I call B.S. What I contend is that the poaching problem in MD by commercial fishermen has been much, much worse than DNR can ever imagine. Having relatives in the industry has provided me insight that only "insiders" are privy to. The more than normal procedure is that "every caught rockfish is filetted". "Every rockfish, whether its 17 inches or 50 inches is filleted", to quote a local netter. Its time for change here in Maryland. Nets should be banned. I also am only one MSSA member, and this is my opinion.........................................Ma rk

[uno]

The last time I looked, having filets on a boat was illegal. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all. I contend that with the number of recreational fishermen in relation to the number of commercial fishermen, poaching by the rec sector, therefore, has to be much greater. The ASMFC graph tells the whole story. I'm sure those figures will be used to make the official decisions, in spite of everyones "feelings" on the subject.

[B-Faithful]

Total B.S. The numbers speak for themselves. Recs are already responsible for 79% of the mortality of the stock, and a HUGE percentage of that number are the largest, spawning cows which the commercial sector doesn't harvest. How the catch divides among the States doesn't matter.

Allocation of the harvest is a state issue. It is why some states do not even allow for a commercial harvest and others do. It is also why the splits of the states that do have a commercial rockfish harest vary from state to state. You are the one trying to invoke emotion by looking at all state takes under the ASMFC and trying to justify our excessive commercial take. Facts are that Maryland's commercial harvest of striped bass is enormous as compared to all other states under the ASMFC. It makes up nearly 1/3 of the entire commercial take.. Maryland recs take doesnt come close to making up that portion of the entire rectional take and recreational fishing in the Chesapeake is nearly dependent upon the species.

Bottom line is that the current allocation between recs and commercial fisheries in Maryland is out-dated and not a wise use of our resource given the economic and social benefits of the use of the resource to our state. The MSSA has asked the our Gov and DNR to re-evaluate the split. I think they have sound justification in doing so.

[Capt.Nick]

It's easy to spout garbage on the internet - hook & line weekly and seasonal quotas don't change after the season starts (nor do other commercial gear type quotas). Daily quotas can be increased, but the total for the week and the season still remains.
When the recs get a seasonal quota and a reliable reporting system, perhaps their allowances could be adjusted during the season as needed much like the commercial sector. There seems to be a lot of resistance to establishing a reliable recreational reporting system. What was the 'quota" before and after they raised the daily limit from 200-400 # a day?

[mlag]

The last time I looked, having filets on a boat was illegal.
So is trimming tails and keeping undersize and oversize fish. That's the point...................................Mark

[DDogfish]

I agree, gamefish status is not likely in my lifetime, but the striped bass should be a gamefish. The lobbiest and the politicians need to do their dance. We can't get too caught up in that. Look what has happened in the south when redfish and snook received gamefish status. Look what happens in states that ban netting along their coast, fish stocks soar. Fish numbers soared and the amount of money spent on recreational fishing soared. We won't be faced with all of the problems of poaching rings and trawlers that dump their catch to go back to get larger fish. We have seen this type thing over and over again. It is not only the commercial catch of striped bass, but the commercial catch of menhaden that is denying the stripers of a food source. If striped bass were a gamefish, the economic boost to the state in gear, boats and supplies would far out pace any amount of economic gain from the commercial fishing of striped bass. I know as a recreational fisherman, I would never, and have not since the moritorium, buy striped bass from a seafood store or restaurant. This has gone on long enough, we need proper management of our fisheries. It is good that this discussion goes on here, but we all need to write our delegates, senators and the governor on these subjects of gamefish and of better management of the fisheries. It is only numbers of people and of votes that will decide this thing. The commercial fisherman may have a very strong lobby and cozy up to certain legislators, but there are many, many more recreational fisherman. Everyone needs to speake up to their legislators.

[LY2000]

Interesting chart directly from the ASMFC:
Which sector of the fishery needs to have their harvest reduced?

No official has asked me or anyone I know how many rockfish I caught, ever.