Is this a fly...

[Bounty Htr]

To add to our "potential stupid question discussion" I want to take it one step farther. In my area it is common practice to tie a big fly to a 3 way swivel and a 1-3 oz sinker and fish it on a spinning rod. Some of these guys are statring to tie flies, and some of the stuff they are tying are finding thier way on to the end of fly rods.

One of the most popular flies the spin guys are using is basically a purple Culprit rubber worm with a small bucktail collar. Last week I saw a guy "fly" fishing with a Bass assin glued to the hook. So my question is are these "flies" really "flies"??????

[oysterbreath]

Hey bounty here is the IGFA definition of what a fly is i would say it is a fly as long as the worm is not scented. This is right out of the IGFA fly fishing rule book

F. LURES
The lure must be a recognized type of artificial fly, which
includes streamer, bucktail, tube fly, wet fly, dry fly, nymph, popper
and bug. The use of any other type of lure or natural or preserved bait,
either singularly or attached to the fly, is expressly prohibited. Only a
single fly is allowed. Dropper flies are prohibited. The fact that a lure
can be cast with a fly rod is not evidence in itself that it fits the
definition of a fly. The use of any lure designed to entangle or
foul-hook a fish is prohibited. No scent, either natural or artificial is
allowed on flies. The use of scented material in a fly is prohibited

[Wild Bill]

There are those who are concerned about all the traditions and conventions of fly fishing and want to fish for records according to IFGA standards. That is understandable and they should chase their dreams and records, if that is what they enjoy. There are others who just enjoy catching fish on the fly rod and do not worry if their 20 pound tippet actually breaks at 22 pounds. I fall into the second group. I carry spinning rods and fly rods, and if the fly rod is really a poor choice as a fishing tool, I pick up a spinning rod and catch fish. The fly rod is always the first choice, if I can make it work. I like action while fishing.

Several times per year, when things are a little slow in summer, we go to the ocean and try to find gator blues and chum them to the boat. To this point we have never failed to get a nice bunch of fish snapping behind the boat. I may do it next week. Catching bluefish in chum is not automatic. Usually they will take any fly at first, and then they will reject what ever fly you start with. If you change up to a new pattern, you can usually catch them again until they get used to that fly. To keep catching on a regular basis, you go through many flies.

Now I am getting to the question asked. One of my buds tied a plastic squid to an Owner hook, and for a while the blues ate it. It was about 5" long and cast OK but not great. It is very durable and the blues did not tear it up. Is it a fly or not? Many would say not, and many would not care as long as it catches fish.

I am fine with either view but am not fine with guys who think they are so special they have to tell others how to fish and what is fly fishing and what is not. 95% of the flies I tie and use are tied with natural bucktail and I prefer fishing with those only because it is something I created to fool the fish and they work.

It reminds me of the SOL forum when they talk about catching 50 pound bass. It only counts for those guys if it is caught from the beach. If it is caught from a boat, they look down their nose at it and discount the accomplishment. Their "club" membership is extremely important to them and they do not want to be tainted by guys fishing from a boat. These are games men play.

I know freshwater trout fishermen who will only fish dry flies. If that is the constriction they want to put on themselves, that is fine too. When they look down their nose at the guy fishing a nymph, they lose me.

[chrisdetweiler]

There are definately some flyfishermen that will look down their noses at different methods of fishing. I'm not suggesting that anyone that posted on this board has done that, but I experienced it in flyshops when I first started to flyfish. I think it's fine to have the opinion that placing a piece of bait on a fly really isn't flyfishing, but to judge someone for using bait or lures...I just don't get it. If they're practicing catch and relase or adhereing to catch limits, using circle hooks, etc... I'm much more concerned with environmental issues. Sportsman are a small fraternity to begin with. When you reduce it to flyfisherman only, that's a very small group. In order to have a strong voice, I think it's important that all sportsman are on the same page, so to speak, when it comes to environmental causes. I've had a number of experiences discussing fishing with someone when they've said, "Oh...I don't flyfish. I just use bait or lures." It's almost like they're intimidated by the idea of learning to use a flyrod. I always tell people that any kind of fishing is great and flyfishing is MUCH easier than they realize. It's never too late to give it a try. I got my dad back into it after nearly 40 years. It frustrates the hell out of him sometimes, but he's having a blast with it!

[Striper22]

I would "look down my nose" at a "fly" like that. Then again I have fished San Juan worms and Green Weenies before. Debates have raged as to those being flies. Whatever works, you only have to please yourself. These days with the use of epoxy and other material, I don't know where the line is.

[stripstrike]

If he can cast it on the fly rod, and it isn't scented, I'd say it qualifies.
I'm with Bill on the whole fishing mentality. I like flyfishing, but if it ain't working, I'll put it down. I go fishing to catch fish, not to be a purist. My time ansd sometimes money are limited so wasting it on a 10 + hour boatride seems ludicrous. I will adapt and do whatever it takes to make it happen.

[bigjim5589]

I got into this once on a freshwater site, boy what a mess that was. Opinions will very widely, as will attitudes. Again, I say it should be a matter of personal choice, to each his own sort of thing.

I prefer to try & be open minded about it.

My personal definition of what a fly is somewhat follows the Maryland DNR legal definition, it's tied on the hook, comprised of a single or multiple materials, but not molded, and intended to be cast with a fly rod. This is a loose definition, and also open to interpretation, but it works for me. What others feel it is is fine with me.

I got no problem with leadeyes, beadheads or any such added weight, they're intended to be used on flies, although some will argue that they're use makes them jigs. I wouldn't say a jighead is a fly, even the real small ones, as it's molded on the hook, but that's just my opinion, and doesn't keep me from throwing them with a fly rod (the tiny ones, not the big ones!) However, if someone wants to call a 1/2 oz jig a fly because they toss it with a 13 wt, I'm not going to argue with them, as that's their choice to call it whatever they want.

If you get real specific, "flies" are a type of insect, but yet we call imitations of all kinds of prey "flies" as well as concoctions that don't imitate anything in particular. Let's face it, it don't really matter as long as they work for us, and we enjoy using them. Its certainly not worth arguing about it.

[Bill Couch]

I am also a fisherman first and would prefer to use the fly rod, but that isn't alwawys the best way to get it done. It doesn't matter what other people think about fishing methods until they start imposing their opinions on me. I just feel sorry for the guys who limit themselves, such as the trout fisherman who only fish for trout. They are missing out on some other great fish to catch. Bounty hunter, dont worry what any of us think, just do what puts a tug on YOUR line.

[Bounty Htr]

It wasent me using the "fly" in question. I just was wondering what everybody else thinks. Give me a Clouser any day.

[Shortylong01]

I was fly fishing off of Key West one time with one of the funniest guides i ahve ever run accross. the tarpon fishing was slow so we motored out to get some Mahi Mahi... (very close to Cuban waters I would add...) He teased some decent fish to the boat and time after time the mahis rejected any fly we threw...

The Captain said...Hold on...Let me sweeten that fly up for you. He dumped the fly in a small bottle of bunker oil.. capt said...now throw it to em... We were locked up with Mahis for several hours after this move... Fly rod legal? probably not.... World record eligible? No way... Fun ? HUGE fun... we laughed until we cried hooking up with these Mahis... some of which were VERY nice size. Since then I have used "sweet" flies on Sharks with the same luck when I get rejection. If it keeps your flyrod arced, with a smile on your face....GO FOR IT... (Just my .02)