DNR Task Force for Fisheries Management- Thread I

[Matt]

Guys, during my conversation with Chris Lucket of MDE today, we discussed the fishkill information on MDEs fish health website

Fish Kills in Maryland

On this page data is available that shows reported pound net fish kills. As many of you know, I have an axe to grind with the pound netters, because I think these nets are causing an increasing amount of fish kills in our tidal water. I think pockets of impaired water move around our tributaries randomly and sometimes not so randomly cause mortality in pound nets. I believe this problem is largely under reported, and grossly understated. After my discussion with Mr Luckett, I was advised that reported kills will be listed in the data. To support this data collection process, I recommend all recs should make a habit of surveying these entrapment devices. Please take your boat off plane and look closely. If you see a fish kill, report it. Lets get an accurate count. As if that classification of mortality isn't already significant (see the chart), I think a more data driven, accurate ongoing report would really help us identify and deal with a known problem. In my opinion, this is a very important thing you can do to support a healthy future recreational fishery in the bay.

Please see the fish kill website and call them when you see dead fish.

from the website

"Maryland Department of the Environment
Science Services Administration
Fish Kill Investigation Section
416 Chinquapin Round Road, Annapolis, MD 21401

Normal work hours: 1-800-285-8195

After hours: 1-877-224-7229 or 1-866-633-4686

The annual summary may be obtained by contacting Chris Luckett at 443-482-2731."

[Martin Gary]

Good evening all. I just returned from a 17 hour day on Tangier Sound, so I'm dragging a bit, but a few quick replies:

Ed: I understand the source of your frustration and pessimism, but you know me fairly well, and I would ask you to keep the faith and let this process play out, and then render judgement. We at DNR can be eqally frustrated at times, and are hopeful that new and improved processes can be developed to help the resources we manage, the stake-holders, and DNR. On another note, I was saddened to hear about your Dad. You have my thoughts and prayers.

Chris: Well said, and P. flavacens is indeed a worthy task!

Matt: Boy you ask a lot of questions. Oysters to yellow perch to pound nets. Paul and I are not adverse to answering any or all of them, but somehow or other we have to get some work done as well! We might make more headway talking these out over some time out fishing. The major point of our asking Brandon to open the lines of communication on TF was to keep everyone updated on the task force and to provide opportunities for feedback by those that are unable to attend. The issues you raise may very well be applicable to the actions of the task force, but I would encourage you to attend the meetings and offer input first hand through the public comment component. If you can't make it, we gladly welcome your comments and suggestions on any and all issues the task force is dealing with.

Mark your calendars. The next Task Force for Fisheries Management meeting is Tuesday, January 8th, from 4-7 @ the Annapolis Doubletree. All are welcomed and encouraged to attend.

Thanks all,

Marty

[Matt]

Paul and I are not adverse to answering any or all of them, but somehow or other we have to get some work done as well!

Marty, happy holidays. Sorry if I overloaded the thread with hard questions. I really only have two questions germane to the task force.

1) How will this task force would be different than the active advisory committees?

2) If a fishery stakeholder process begins with "sound science," what how would you describe the science used to justify the oyster fishery?

[capt.george]

JUST REWARD: Gov. Martin O'Malley has designated Jim Gilford of Frederick, as an Admiral of Chesapeake Bay for his "lifelong efforts to protect, restore and educate others about Maryland's fisheries." Jim is stepping down as chairman of the Sport Fisheries Advisory Commission of which he has been a member for 28 years, more than 10 as boss man.

---DNR Guys , & others --My post on Jim's decades of dedacation , i thought was overlooked as i got not one responce--

--I am So Pleased Gov. O'Malley has made him an Admiral of the Chesapeake Bay --A well Deserved Title ---Hopefully a Official Presentation could be made , Possibly at a Task Force Meeting or a Combined Fisheries Committe Meeting ---

--I believe we have some others in this "Hall of Fame" If so Could you List thier Names ?

[DNR GUY]

Marty, happy holidays. Sorry if I overloaded the thread with hard questions. I really only have two questions germane to the task force.

1) How will this task force would be different than the active advisory committees?

Matt, I'll take this one. The biggest difference is that this group includes the vast majority of the 'players' in the stakeholder equation. The other bodies are all divided according to the particular fisheries interests and the stakeholders aligned with those parochial interests. This group captures all of the others and many additional groups who are not typically represented (e.g. riverkeepers). With all stakeholders at the table there leaves little room for anyone to legitimately cry-foul when the process is concluded. Every stakeholder will have their 'bite-of-the-apple' and if they elect to sit and watch rather than participate they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

To that end, I'd like to reinforce what Marty said earlier. You're obiously well-informed and passionate about these issues. Rather than dive into the finer points of each topic here, I'd urge you to use some of your time to engage the Task Force directly. Again, I'll be certain to download the comments of anyone who jumps in here for the new Task Force but it's all much more meaningful if it comes from the individuals themselves. Think about how much more effective one can be when they personally testify to a legislative body....versus sending the message electronically or through a surrogate.

In any case, I hope that clears this one up. As for oysters --- good question, but that's an issue that deserves a lot more discussion than can probably be given in this forum. I'd suggest looking for an upcoming agenda involving that topic and get your message directly to the group.

Thanks and happy holidays,
Paul

[Matt]

Matt, I'll take this one. The biggest difference is that this group includes the vast majority of the 'players' in the stakeholder equation. The other bodies are all divided according to the particular fisheries interests and the stakeholders aligned with those parochial interests. This group captures all of the others and many additional groups who are not typically represented (e.g. riverkeepers). With all stakeholders at the table there leaves little room for anyone to legitimately cry-foul when the process is concluded. Every stakeholder will have their 'bite-of-the-apple' and if they elect to sit and watch rather than participate they'll have no one to blame but themselves.

To that end, I'd like to reinforce what Marty said earlier. You're obiously well-informed and passionate about these issues. Rather than dive into the finer points of each topic here, I'd urge you to use some of your time to engage the Task Force directly. Again, I'll be certain to download the comments of anyone who jumps in here for the new Task Force but it's all much more meaningful if it comes from the individuals themselves. Think about how much more effective one can be when they personally testify to a legislative body....versus sending the message electronically or through a surrogate.

In any case, I hope that clears this one up. As for oysters --- good question, but that's an issue that deserves a lot more discussion than can probably be given in this forum. I'd suggest looking for an upcoming agenda involving that topic and get your message directly to the group.

Thanks and happy holidays,
Paul

Paul, thanks for the reply. I hope you're having a restful and relaxing holiday.

Again, I don't want to misuse the intent of this thread. I read an offer by you and Marty to field questions about the task force. I'll stop asking questions now, since this isn't going anywhere. Instead I'll just provide my expectation, based on thirty years of very clear history. This task force does not represent something substantially different than the current advisory committees. As many here are aware, our current stakeholder processes have failed to generate meaningful improvement to our bay fisheries. In another example of something new and different, five years ago we had a bold series of public hearing about crabs. DNR was going to fix the crab situation, and I was optimistic. I traveled all around the state hoping that the views of interested citizens would be taken into account, as promised. Eric Schwab knows, I stood up and spoke my mind at most of the meetings, as did many of my fellow constituents with similar concerns. The result of our effort was status quo pro-commercial mismanagement with no likely improvement on near horizon. At this time crabs might be in worse shape than five years ago, and it seems we're still hanging our hats on the non-action we took five years ago...?

With so much of my recent time wasted in DNR stakeholder processes, I will not trust our processes again until you guys really fix something. No more talk. DNR is not using science to manage our fisheries. What about 1% of the native oyster population? What about crabs still at or near all time low? What about myco infections in the striped bass? What about a localized FMP for yellow perch? What about pound nets stranding fish in dead water, and what about all those predator birds on those nets? What do you guys think those birds are eating? What about ghost pots? We don't even know how much gear is active. I don't think I can name a single commercially targeted species that is in better shape than it was when I started fishing in the bay, and I have no confidence that the current unscientific approach will allow any of these species to be in better shape when my son is my age. Its all getting worse, and our current fishery mismanagement paradigm is squarely at fault. We're giving away too much marine life in the name of something that could be as easily called welfare as it could be called commerce.

My expectation is that the task force was formed as a clintonesque political move, as a way of talking things out, with no accountability to the gov. Its kind of sad Maryland has to mismanage the bay like this, but I have learned to expect the worse.

[Ele]

Matt, very good incites. You are absolutely right, nothing has changed and nothing is better than it was 30 years ago.

Ele

[Capt.Nick]

I would like to know why the size limit was lowered to 8 1/2 inches?How does this benefit the fishery?

[capt.george]

Matt, very good incites. You are absolutely right, nothing has changed and nothing is better than it was 30 years ago.

Ele

----Ele, You & I both know that each & Every Year of those 30, we have had a Mother Nature imposed factors that have fought the Human side of improvement Tooth & Nail ---The 7 days of May 72 was our 9-11---I dissagree with the Nothing factor --Because of Maryland's Blood, Sweat & Tears the East Coast's Striped Bass Fishery is WORLD CLASS---Hopefully our Neighbors in the Commenwealth & Tar Heel state will control the Winter Fishery with Zest , in keeping it that way ---

--After reading the Exposay, about Edgewater Beach's Sewer Situation my eyes were opened, & I relize that my Efforts must be Directed toward the SWIFT Immediate Reversal of Status Quo based on Foot Dragging by our SO Called State & Local Leaders ---Let me tell ya , There may be Snow on the Head , but there is fire in my Belly ---I will admit that I didn't know we still had water Communities Adjacent to the Bay with Overflowing Septics, PCV pipes for Dishwashers & Laundrys& all the other 1950 BS--- geo.

[sapidusandsuds]

Paul, thanks for the reply. I hope you're having a restful and relaxing holiday.

Again, I don't want to misuse the intent of this thread. I read an offer by you and Marty to field questions about the task force. I'll stop asking questions now, since this isn't going anywhere. Instead I'll just provide my expectation, based on thirty years of very clear history. This task force does not represent something substantially different than the current advisory committees. As many here are aware, our current stakeholder processes have failed to generate meaningful improvement to our bay fisheries. In another example of something new and different, five years ago we had a bold series of public hearing about crabs. DNR was going to fix the crab situation, and I was optimistic. I traveled all around the state hoping that the views of interested citizens would be taken into account, as promised. Eric Schwab knows, I stood up and spoke my mind at most of the meetings, as did many of my fellow constituents with similar concerns. The result of our effort was status quo pro-commercial mismanagement with no likely improvement on near horizon. At this time crabs might be in worse shape than five years ago, and it seems we're still hanging our hats on the non-action we took five years ago...?

With so much of my recent time wasted in DNR stakeholder processes, I will not trust our processes again until you guys really fix something. No more talk. DNR is not using science to manage our fisheries. What about 1% of the native oyster population? What about crabs still at or near all time low? What about myco infections in the striped bass? What about a localized FMP for yellow perch? What about pound nets stranding fish in dead water, and what about all those predator birds on those nets? What do you guys think those birds are eating? What about ghost pots? We don't even know how much gear is active. I don't think I can name a single commercially targeted species that is in better shape than it was when I started fishing in the bay, and I have no confidence that the current unscientific approach will allow any of these species to be in better shape when my son is my age. Its all getting worse, and our current fishery mismanagement paradigm is squarely at fault. We're giving away too much marine life in the name of something that could be as easily called welfare as it could be called commerce.

My expectation is that the task force was formed as a clintonesque political move, as a way of talking things out, with no accountability to the gov. Its kind of sad Maryland has to mismanage the bay like this, but I have learned to expect the worse.

Wow! You get one response that isn't to your liking and you bail out. I'm surprised and a little dissapointed. I'm sure it's frustrating to wonder what happened to your efforts on behalf of blue crabs. However, it might have been hard for someone like Eric to make substantial changes since he was fired shortly therafter. The good news is that he's back and has a keen interest in seeing this task force function toward making substantial change. If you doubt that, read the text of the first meeting where he spoke quite clearly and directly about breaking down the current paradigm.

Likewise, all of the other issues you raise are important and worth discussing. But you have to know that I'm not in a position to make unilateral changes simply because someone sends me a note on a forum. My role is to engage in a dialogue about task force process and help facilitate folks like yourself getting your message to the task force so your energies aren't wasted as it appears they may have been in the past.

I'm sorry this isn't going the way you would like thus far but if something is this important to you then I'd figure you'd hang in there for more than three posts to an online forum thread.

I stand by my statements that this task force will be 'different' than the other bodies. If I do nothing else with the rest of my career, I can guarantee that much.