Tempers Flare Over GPS on Watermen's Boats

[27 sailfish]

Scott Todd, who serves as president of the Dorchester Seafood Harvesters Association, thinks the DNR's investigation of watermen has been a waste of time and money.

"It would be a much better use of the state's resources to put these black boxes on murderers, drug addicts, thieves and drug dealers, than just somebody who is looking for a fish," he said.




Mr. Todd might want to run the names of convicted poachers through the Md court search - more then a few have convictions for drugs and thief - among other charges. Some are real role models - assault , sex offenses , etc.

[LTF]

It would be much less expensive to protect the oyster sanctuaries using underwater obstacles like reef balls that would damage dredges than trying to track many thousands of honest watermen with no or minor violations and a small group, we can argue the number but they are easy to list, that is really the target of concern. Think about the expense involved of GPS tracking of literally thousands of boats 24/7 by some expensive new command center staffed by law enforcement personnel, tracking huge numbers of licensed watermen that have never been involved whatsoever in any illegal activity. We're not talking about GPS devices in a snow plow that you can call up on your screen. Track convicted poachers but the other issue is that known GPS devices in a smaller vessel are easily defeated so poachers will not be transmitting their location during a poaching operation so all that millions in expenditure is wasted. That's the reason they are hidden or attempted to be hidden in this case following issuing of warrants warrants (or not always until now following the recent SC ruling). The other real issue is constitutionality of law enforcement tracking of law abiding US citizens. The recent Supreme Court ruling really does establish that a car, a boat or other personal conveyance is a private domain and thereIfore any citizen should feel that they have the right to privacy which now includes their route and freedom of movement. The difference that people are not understanding with other GPS tracking is the fact this would be monitoring by law enforcement, not FedX, not snow plows, law enforcement with arrest powers. For law abiding citizens, that should never be forced upon them or a condition of emoyment in the USA. It's a very bad path to start down. I fully understand the VMS tracking of US Cargo vessels and have experience in that realm.

Jim,

You exaggerate the cost and difficulty of tracking multiple GPS devices. For the most part, tracking would be hands-off. Once installed, triggered events could notify of any violations and alert a monitor to respond to a vessel. An alert could be the device crossing into prohibited waters. One could also be set if there is a loss of GPS signal or signal from the device itself. In such a case, the command center could attempt to make contact with the party responsible for the boat. If it is found that the device was tampered with or that there was an attempt to interfere with the device in some way, charges could be brought against the party. If this were to be a reaccuring issue with a given vessel or fisherman, then other devices could be installed such as cameras. The program could be paid for by an increase in license fees, and more importantly, an increase in fines.

[goose70]

Focusing on the narrow issue of the warrants, I can understand the frustration. I deal with government searches & seizures, the grand jury process and other government investigations. It is often shrouded in secrecy, leaves targets at the mercy of the prosecutor -- sometimes for years -- and can be particularly frustrating when the government refuses to share basic details about the basis of its investigation.

That said, the government's motivation for secrecy is not all hot air. As we can imagination, if the government provides too many details about the nature of its investigation, where it's headed, what it knows and what it still needs, the target can easily frustrate those efforts by destroying evidence, etc. The prosecutor is certainly not going to provide that evidence to a legislator who is not a part of the investigation, nor should a legislator interfere with an investigation. (Once the government brings charges, then the target and his lawyer have greater access to such evidence.)

If the watermen have concerns (and I don't blame them for wanting to know whether the gps devices were properly planted under the scope of the warrant), then the proper method is for the targets -- not anyone else -- to challenge the search in court. If they can't afford a lawyer, then they could contact the ACLU or similar legal services providers.

[kidz]

Guys,I agree I think that esquire Grainger did personally attack me with that post.I as I think most members of the Tidal Fish community find him to be an unprofessional,unintelligent and now perverted part of the TF family. Decent people would never publicly post some of the things Grainger has posted on this forum.After that perverted post he made towards a new member to the board and a newbie to the area i am ashamed to be a part of this community.Why the Chief Angler allows him to continue to discredit this great institution I have know idea.Rest assured if Grainger the esquire were to physically go behind that barn with me,he would have a completely different outlook on allowing his alligator mouth to overload his humming bird tail.A personal attack on esquire Tom Grainger from Gb is forthcoming Stay Tuned.I have documents Im willing to show,unlike our leader over at NRP.

Wow! Perverted post? LOL The priest caught in the adult bookstore, thats perverted. What I think, there is to much drama going on here for TF posters. I'm done with reading anymore on this post.

[LTF]

LTF - Do you understand my point that a GPS device on a small craft like a workboat can be interfered with by very simple means, thereby blocking the signal between the boat and the satellite? That fact alone makes the program a bad return on investment. The sanctuaries are under 24/7 camera surveillance now and when a workboat goes near them, NRP is alerted, effectively doing the same thing.

Jim,

Cameras on the sanctuaries is a good start, but they do not answer the greater problem of poaching in general, not just in oyster sanctuaries, but also in areas closed to fishing whether permenantly or temporarily and linking poachers to illegal activities such as anchored gill nets.

In regards to the prohibited areas, they could be programmed into the monitoring station and the GPS, and when a craft crosses into these areas, an alert would be sent to the monitor, logged in the GPS, and the authorities notified. Administrative measures would need to be put in place to limit and frustrate tampering. I already mentioned some. Alerts could be programmed for when the signal is lost. An alert of signal loss could be logged on the device and at the station. A monitor would take steps to contact the registered fisherman and contact the closest law enforcement agent to investigate. If it were found that there was an attempt to tamper with a device, the fisherman could be fined. If a specific device or devices registered to a certain user repeatedly lost signal for whatever reason, other methods could be used to monitor the craft/s such as onboard cameras.

These devices wouldn't be the sole tool used against poaching, but an additional asset. When a boat is found with an illegal catch, the GPS data could corroborate the evidence. Or in a situation such as when illegal gill nets are found, the monitoring station could go through it's logs to find who was in the area prior to the discovery and an investigation begun.

Now, some of course will still try to defeat these devices, but that is hardly a good argument for not using them.

[TomGlenBurnie]

APOLOGY FOR PERSONAL ATTACK:

I Granger also crossed the line. I apologize to shaddart 2004 .
I have removed my unkind words from the post.

You might remember that Shaddart's comments about Mr Griffin were unkind and inflammatory.
That is no excuse for my bad behavior.
.
Thomas Granger

[buckshotgumbo]

I'm not opposed to the GPS units in convicted violators vessels, and in making them responsible for the cost of having them onboard. The issue is see, and I'm just talking about viability, is, what if the unit"lost signal"? By the time nrp arrives, they've made their licks. Another thing is the power source. If it powered by the vessel, that's another problem. If you're a pos poacher, chances are your rig isn't up to abyc standards... unit looses power, signal gone. "Gosh, I don't know what happened"
Again, if units on convicted poachers boats is what's deemed necessary, I'm all for it. I want to see it become such that they have to work at 7-11the instead.I'm just throwing stuff out there as potential issues so we don't throw good money after bad.
I apologize for bad spacing or punctuation as I post this from my Droid, and its a pain in the ass..

[Pursuiting]

I doubt they're just picking on law abiding citizens nor will they be using thousands of GPS units to protect "Our' fishery from being robbed.They didn't pick these guy names from a hat.They had a reason.

For all you know, the only reason they had that they had a commercial license. First these unsubstantiated allegations against "others" and then against you. Why not put a GPS on your boat? After all, you are a fisherman. Remember when the State said they wanted to be able to give an extra ticket for those who didn't wear a seat belt. Now they can pull you over, detain you, and harass you because you drove without a seat belt and against the wishes of the insurance companies. Everyone should be suspect of goverment because the government wants unchecked expantion of power. THis power is directly converse to your freedoms.

MIke

[hackeyfly]

Get rid of all law enforcement, and issue everyone a gun and ammo. Problem solved, no more worrries about law enforcement run amuck tracking folks.
Pat in Joppa

[shaddart2004]

Get rid of all law enforcement, and issue everyone a gun and ammo. Problem solved, no more worrries about law enforcement run amuck tracking folks.
Pat in Joppa

Pat that is an idea!I know people that have been suggesting that for the people of Balto.City for years.