07-21-2012, 09:43 AM
Last edited by pitched up; 07-21-2012 at 09:58 AM.
07-21-2012, 12:00 PM
I don't understand why you care. If you don't have any skin in the game, why make it so personal that you're actually seeking and posting personal info about me. Frankly, I don't know how or why you would gather that info if we had not crossed paths before, or why you would post it if you were not willing to cross the same line the other guy crossed. Either way, I would be glad to see fewer personal remarks and more focus on the subject. My opinion is that recs have much less to do with gear loss than comms want people to believe, and I also think comms have taken no financial or environmental responsibility for this pollution whatsoever. If anybody else sees that as a personal remark, please share your rationale.
Originally Posted by pitched up
07-21-2012, 01:00 PM
I imagine the so-called "pollution" you speak of are the pots themselves sitting on the bottom of the bay? If so, you're talking about iron oxide (rust). How is this any worse or even on the same scale as the Target Ship or other metal objects that are in the bay both intentionally and accidentally? What about the tons of lead we anglers have left in the bay, wouldn't that be of greater concern?
The original post was about Virginia where pots can be placed virtually anywhere and everywhere by both commercial an recreational crabbers. The chances of loss due to boat traffic is even greater there!
IMO the main concern about the ghost pots is by-catch after the pot has been lost, for whatever reason. A very good solution to that was even stated in the original post (degradable panels).
07-21-2012, 02:18 PM
Panels might be a good solution, if anybody could muster the political clout to make watermen do it. Without making the rest of us pay watermen to do it. If we're going to use up our capital to force watermen to modify their gear, why not try to get a more definitive study about the cause of loss. Thats where I went with the argument to begin with, before the commercial guys reminded us that lost gear is simply not their fault.
If we knew why or how so much gear was getting lost, then we wouldn't need to modify ALL the gear just to deal with the ten percent that gets lost. If we could reduce the loss by 50% by deconflicting whatever is causing the loss, I would guess that could come close to the same outcome as gear modifications, but without the cost.
As far as "so called pollution" to be sure lost gear is poillution. The wire mesh is coated with heavy metal and I believe every pot also has a zinc anode to prevent corrosion. So its not just rust. Also we're talking about ropes and floats and last but not least the bykill. I have to admit, I'm surprised anybody would suggest lost gear is not a noteworthy form of pollution.
Relatively speaking is something worse than lost gear? Ok. Yeah, got it. But "so called" makes it sound like two wrongs make a right.
07-21-2012, 05:12 PM
If the heavy metal coating you're referring to is the wire mesh being galvanized, that is zinc. Since zinc is non-toxic and is actually beneficial, I wouldn't consider it a pollutant either. If you have an electric water heater, it too has a zinc anode which ends up in the water you drink, bathe, and cook with. Having no idea what the rope that is used is made of I'll give you that as being "pollution". As far as the floats go...in my 50+ years, I doubt I would have to use all the fingers on one hand to count how many loose floats I have seen. As Skip said previously, I too think that they are quickly picked up for use as decorations.
Playing the pollution card to try to get support based off an emotional response is a waste of time and you quickly alienate yourself from those who see through the smokescreen and might otherwise be supportive.
Before you ask, no, I'm not LCC nor do I want to be. I don't like to work that hard!
Last edited by Cabyn Fever; 07-21-2012 at 05:13 PM.
07-21-2012, 07:29 PM
Nevermind the fact that its a junk pile that traps fish and crabs. The EPA has a formal limit for zinc, for a reason. Zinc is a pollutant. Too much zinc can impede human metabolism from absorbing vitamins and minerals. If zinc can do that to humans maybe the critters that try to inhabit the corroding pile of junk could also be affected. I'm thinking the volume of that lost crab trap and the area it take on the bay floor is essentially a no-life zone. I could be wrong. If anybody disputes my claim, bring it.
Your claim, I think its fair to say, is that tens of thousands of these junk piles lost every year isn't a big deal. I guess you're thinking the bay is a big place, so the mass of the pots versus the volume of water isn't a big deal. By that rationale we could also probably dispose of a tenth of our drink cans and water bottles out there too with minimal near term effect. And we might actually be doing that.
Aluminum and plastic worse than zinc? You make the call. Most people think any cans and bottles are pollution.
Thanks for the debate.
07-25-2012, 02:59 PM
the program is 100% effective if you consider that none of those 10,000 pots would have been recovered w/o it.
And wasnt this ALSO intended to be a means of income for watermen who might otherwise be setting illegal gill nets and such, so essentially it was a commercial subsidy with a bonus benefit of removing some ghost pots? Either was the taxpayer is funding it.
08-01-2012, 03:08 PM
The zincs wear away over time - once gone - the crab pot will slowly dissolve.
How long exactly is a guess but most will be falling apart in 3-5 years. A lot depends on the quality of the zinc and salinity of the water.
I some times bump into old crab pots diving and some literally crumble when I push into them. The rebar is still solid but the wire falls apart.
Sadly - often there are fish / crabs inside.
Zincs are also used on boats - these are replaced every year if boat is kept in water. Boats on trailers can get 3-4 seasons from zincs.
What could be more mundane than dying of old age or of natural causes when there is death by misadventure to be pursued ? Skip