gunpowder

[Superdink]

mR hImself, you are the best crab knowing guy on thsi crabbing baord.
i told them guys we got big jimmies and stuff but they got excuses
my dad sez the spot is more impotent than the weahter and the tide is most of all
we just do it my brohter sez hahaha and we got good ones today to
my dad lies in vIrgina and i got to go back to school soon

[normmag]

Its the same every year 99% paper. The Gunpowder has been a sloughing ground now for years boyz.

When it use to have an average depth of 10-12 feet which was 20-25 years ago it was good. Now its a silted in river with an average depth of 6-8 at high tide. Dont need to be a crabologist to figure out why the river is constant " JUNK"

This is his orginal statement

[rj]

The fallacy you're indulging is proverbially known as "choking on the gnat while swallowing the camel."

Until you cite reliable data to the contrary, the cited data stands. [SOURCE: http://historical.mytopo.com/quad.cf...e=MD&series=15

There are historical bathymetric charts available for free preview here.
http://historicalcharts.noaa.gov/historicals/search

[Hint: They don't support any deepwater fantasies of Narnia-on-the-Gunpowder.]
Attachment 64078

Himself
You might just want to read what you wrote, and not be so quick to jump to conclusion without without reading & understanding your own data & words.

The data that you overlooked , or just ignored ,is found on the chart that you posted & at the weblinks that you posted!

I guess you also ignored your history lessons also. if you didn,t you would find that the port of Joppa was the original & busiest seaport on the Western shore of Md a place where many of the ocean going vessels docked, it rivaled the port of Baltimore, it was abandoned & moved to Baltimore in the 18th century due to the siltation mainly caused by the upstream development. this siltation process continues to the present day...finding an online reference to such historical charts & is unlikley since most of this period was prior to Noaa

as far as crabs. good hard #1 crabs are a rare thing in the GP, most of what is caught there is poor quality & light crabs. even though they are big, the quality is not there. for someone that just wants to get out & fish & crab for the day this can be plenty of fun & yes one can catch their fill of crabs & fish.

Just like Lilly I also live on the GP & have fished & crabbed there for over 35 yrs..& have observed the continuing deterioration & siltation of the GP & its fishing & crabbing over the years. I rarely fish or crab in the GP anymore, I usually go elsewhere.

water depth--there are places , although few, & they are definitly uncharted, in the GP & its tributaries where the water depth still runs 10-15 ft
we find them with a depthfinder, & nowdays save them to a gps , before GPs it was loran, & before then it was searching them out with a depthfinder,,, for the fishermen they are usually productive.

Oh & for Navigation on the waters I prefer to use a Navigational Chart as opposed to a Topo map,,but if you would like to use a topo map I hope you arrive safely

[Himself]

You might just want to read what you wrote, and not be so quick to jump to conclusion without without reading & understanding your own data & words.

The data that you overlooked , or just ignored ,is found on the chart that you posted & at the weblinks that you posted!

Nonsense. If I overlooked anything, I'm sure you'd point it out (rather than claiming falsehoods). Naturally you won't, because you can't. There are no data points (none, zero, nada, zilch) in any of the cited data (currently nor historically) that support the specious assertion of some mythical deepwater, inside Carroll or Maxwell Pt.

If you're crabbing upstream in J-town quarry (around Ye Olde Joppa wharf), then empty crab baskets make perfect sense.

I guess you also ignored your history lessons also. if you didn,t you would find that the port of Joppa was the original & busiest seaport on the Western shore of Md a place where many of the ocean going vessels docked, it rivaled the port of Baltimore, it was abandoned & moved to Baltimore in the 18th century due to the siltation mainly caused by the upstream development. this siltation process continues to the present day...finding an online reference to such historical charts & is unlikley since most of this period was prior to Noaa

yawn... moving the goalposts? Sorry, but I'm guessing you weren't crabbing in the 18th century. NOAA historical charts available online show the same depths.

as far as crabs. good hard #1 crabs are a rare thing in the GP, most of what is caught there is poor quality & light crabs. even though they are big, the quality is not there. for someone that just wants to get out & fish & crab for the day this can be plenty of fun & yes one can catch their fill of crabs & fish.

Awful crowded out there (year-after-year) for a river that's gone bust. Judging from the blarney about mythical deep holes and wildly-exagerated "averages", I'd venture to guess this is all a busted disinformation campaign by locals who hope (in vain) to reduce the Pennsylvania boat mobs.

Just like Lilly I also live on the GP & have fished & crabbed there for over 35 yrs..& have observed the continuing deterioration & siltation of the GP & its fishing & crabbing over the years. I rarely fish or crab in the GP anymore, I usually go elsewhere.

water depth--there are places , although few, & they are definitly uncharted, in the GP & its tributaries where the water depth still runs 10-15 ftwe find them with a depthfinder, & nowdays save them to a gps , before GPs it was loran, & before then it was searching them out with a depthfinder,,, for the fishermen they are usually productive.

heh, which is it-- you fish/crab there? or rarely go? Can't have it both ways.


Bottom Line: Asserting that "average depth" in the Gun was 10'-12' is nonsense. Ya'll may need new depthfinders. Deep holes in the Gun are as mythical as manatees in Loch Raven. Only Gunpowder "deep" water is outside Carroll Pt... or wayyyyy upstream in J-town quarry (ye olde seaport).

To repeat: while I agree sedimentation was (and remains) a contributing factor to crabbing decline, appealing to some wistful Narnia of your youthful imagination grossly over-simplifies things.

Oh & for Navigation on the waters I prefer to use a Navigational Chart as opposed to a Topo map,,but if you would like to use a topo map I hope you arrive safely

I never claimed to use those charts for navigation.

Still waiting for any evidence to the contrary. [*crickets chirp*]

[stingray]

I learned a long time ago that using big words and sardonic expressions to make a point doesn't make one's argument any stronger.

Truth is, GP crabs are fine and serve a purpose. Close to home, etc. But, if you're in the crabbing business, on average, and w/ few exceptions, don't try to sell them off as #1's or good hard crabs. Doesn't matter if they come out of water that is 6' deep or 50' deep. That's just the truth.

[rj]

Nonsense. If I overlooked anything, I'm sure you'd point it out (rather than claiming falsehoods). Naturally you won't, because you can't. There are no data points (none, zero, nada, zilch) in any of the cited data (currently nor historically) that support the specious assertion of some mythical deepwater, inside Carroll or Maxwell Pt.

If you're crabbing upstream in J-town quarry (around Ye Olde Joppa wharf), then empty crab baskets make perfect sense.yawn...moving the goalposts? Sorry, but I'm guessing you weren't crabbing in the 18th century. NOAA historical charts available online show the same depths.
Awful crowded out there (year-after-year) for a river that's gone bust. Judging from the blarney about mythical deep holes and wildly-exagerated "averages", I'd venture to guess this is all a busted disinformation campaign by locals who hope (in vain) to reduce the Pennsylvania boat mobs.heh, which is it-- you fish/crab there? or rarely go? Can't have it both ways.


Bottom Line: Asserting that "average depth" in the Gun was 10'-12' is nonsense. Ya'll may need new depthfinders. Deep holes in the Gun are as mythical as manatees in Loch Raven. Only Gunpowder "deep" water is outside Carroll Pt... or wayyyyy upstream in J-town quarry (ye olde seaport).

To repeat: while I agree sedimentation was (and remains) a contributing factor to crabbing decline, appealing to some wistful Narnia of your youthful imagination grossly over-simplifies things.I never claimed to use those charts for navigation.

Still waiting for any evidence to the contrary. [*crickets chirp*]

that's about the answer that I expected ,,a bunch of ramblings while ignoring the true facts,,,I'm done

[Brianczaw]

So I am just a big dummy and still looking for an answer on the original question: Just before a crab sheds, shouldn't it be fairly full and fairly heavy? If yes is the answer, and GP is a sloughing trough; shouldn't someone catch some of these fairly heavy, fairly full crabs prior to shedding? or do the crabs swim into GP and immediately shed their shell? just asking?

[JERRY NORRIS]

Thanks for the links. The old topos are great.

[Brianczaw]

I'm on vacation this week so I'll be seeing for myself tomorrow(monday the 13th) what is out there. I will be in my Proline with the hardtop running traps, in the morning. Stop by and say hi!!l

[Himself]

So I am just a big dummy and still looking for an answer on the original question: Just before a crab sheds, shouldn't it be fairly full and fairly heavy? If yes is the answer, and GP is a sloughing trough; shouldn't someone catch some of these fairly heavy, fairly full crabs prior to shedding? or do the crabs swim into GP and immediately shed their shell? just asking?

+1000% on target.

Sloughers are in every river... and dark, heavy crabs don't mysteriously run from the Gun to Narnia.

Coincidentally, this Gunpowder local whine-fest correlates with the annual Perseid meteor shower which (every old timer knows) heralds the annual collosal Gunpowder crab stampede.

Truth is, small crab super-abundance this year has increased rates of cannabalism on softcrabs (of all sizes) in every river this year. We'll get our revenge in Fall and next Spring.