Your math assumes that just because Sunday hunting would be allowed, everyone will automatically hunt both Saturday and Sunday. It also does not deduct the roughly two weeks worth of kills that would no longer be hunting days during the season. I personally, and many I know who support SH, would like to see Sunday hunting so I have the choice of two days instead of only Saturday. Would I sometimes hunt both Sat. and Sunday? Absolutely. But I also would not be taking off from work every other friday in December and January. The way I see it, it would all even out, but I am no scientist. Just stating my views, as you are.
By the way, wasnt the house committe supposed to be meeting on this tonight? Any word?
RL, you are correct that this would not apply to those who only hunt one of the days. However, I suspect that at least 50% or slightly more will hunt both days or at least parts of both days. I know quite a few people that will clearly hunt both days. With any game other than big game that must be checked where harvest numbers are fairly accurate that does not work for small game because other than the HIP program which is very informal and many people just give incorrect data stating they did not harvest migratory birds or just take the first option so they can get their HIP # quickly as they view it as a nuisance, which is unfortunate. Anyway, my point is most harvest statistics are usually educated guesses by our wildlife bioligist, much like catch data for many of our fisheries and we all know how off those can be. Anyway, because of this it could be years before the full impact of Sunday hunting harvest numbers are known and since most game bag laws are reactive instead of proactive the damage will have already been done. Plus it is really hard to compare one state to another because each state is unique in its game species makeup, habitat, etc and most all states that allow Sunday hunting DO NOT allow dog hunting for deer and have much lower bag limits. In fact many allow one buck only, period. Pennsylvania is a good example. Because they allow Sunday hunting and have so many hunters and so many deer are killed they get one buck between all of the seasons, bow, muzzleloader and rifle. So we need to be careful what we ask for. Who really would want to allow Sunday hunting here just to find out in 3 years that because hunter numbers increased so much we are killing too many deer so now we can only kill one buck. I don't know about you but I would be seriously pissed about that. I spend a lot of money every year like many folks to on food plots, habitat improvement, gear, etc and to only be allowed one buck would be a significant let down. Ultimately I think we would see significant backlash if something like that happened where it ultimately reduced the number of hunters in VA and then there goes the so called positive economic benefit. So many things can happen when something like this changes and we just can not rely on what has occurred in other states to use as a benchmark.
I just checked the Virginia legislative website for an update and did not see one posted so not sure what the latest is on it all.
Yes. I was there. The full measure was tabled and the Senate bill that was passed will the go to the sub committee next week. It was a giant political game tonight. There were no people there in support of the bill, because the lobbyists in favor of the repeal knew that the real bill would be tabled til later. Many, many dog hunters and horse hunters were there against it.
The bottom line is that it is 4-3. Farris will vote for the repeal. The lobbyists think they have a chance at changing Lewis mind. It's not likely thought. Delegate Ware is a whore for Kirby Burch. Burch guarantees Ware reelection by giving the dog hunter support.
DRB, this is all about dog hunters protecting themselves. They don't want to change the status quo, since they have free reign to do what they want.
Tailwalker....I don't know how you don't get this. There are two sides to this argument. For and against. You are on the same side as PETA and the HSUS. That is a fact.
PETA and HSUS don't want me to hunt on Sunday. You don't want me to hunt on Sunday. How are your positions different? When it comes to this bill, your positions are the same.
I would never side with anyone who wants to take away my ability to hunt. Apparently, you don't feel the same.
Tailwalker, you can't hunt on Sunday in Pennsylvania.
They have issues because they kill about 350k deer every year and very few people up there practice QDM. They mow down the small bucks.
Are you really serious? PETA and HSUS are totally against all hunting and are working diligently to work to that end. They don't want Sunday hunting or any hunting but by defeating Sunday they think will lead to the ultimate demise of it all. Are you really so dense that my issue with Sunday hunting has any parallel with PETA or HSUS.
It would appear to me that instead of being able to think for yourself and come up with an intelligent response or rebuttal you have done nothing but regurgitate and appears to me have borrowed from a blog from an online author that recently wrote a lengthy rebuttal to the Virginia Farm Bureau's position against Sunday hunting in which VFB alleges that a poll they took shows the majority of Virginia's farmers do not support Sunday hunting. In that article too the author accused VFB of supporting PETA and HSUS because they were against Sunday hunting. Yet he gave no specifics on how that was the case just as you have failed so miserably to do here. It would appear to me since that author did not elaborate and you "borrowed" from him that you too had no answer for same.
If you are actually talking to our lobbyist and trying to argue for Sunday hunting I would say it is alreay doomed.
In contrast I've given you specific reasons for my opinion on all of this. Whether you agree with me on any of it is of no concern to me. You are entitled to your opinion just as I am but if you can't support your allegations or arguments intelligently then don't make them. Thanks for playing.
Oh, and Pennsylvania does allow Sunday hunting for coyotes, crows, foxes, and on their preserves, including deer hunting just not other game at the moment on private land but they are and have been arguing this same issue since last fall with their lawmakers and it appears the VA lobbyist have been borrowing from their material and lead as well.
Last edited by TAILWALKER; 02-01-2012 at 09:37 PM.
Your specific reasons are that the poachers on your land will screw up your Sundays, so you don't support it. Way to stick to your principals. Lookin out for # 1. How about your data on Sunday hunting in Pennaylvania. Where'd you get those great facts?
When PETA and HSUS go after more of our rights, we'll have people like you to thank. Appreciate it.
Pappis .... Thanks for keeping us informed as to what's going on with the bill .......
TAILWALKER .... as Pappis has pointed out first you don't support deer hunting on Sundays because of all the problems your having with lawbreakers and then in your last post it's because your afraid of over hunting.....don't you think the VDGIF biologist have thought about that and feel that there won't be a problem because the deer herd is fine and Sunday hunting won't hurt...????
Let's take a break from the argument for a second. I looked on the general assembly web site. What the heck does this mean?
"02/01/12 House: Subcommittee recommends laying on the table by voice vote" This is in reference to a couple of the House Sunday Hunting Bills. Don't think I've ever seen that phrase before.
TW I dont see how you can say that you first post doesnt come across to be very narrowminded and in self interest only. Your only arguement was that you have a trespassing/poacher problem. My responce mentioned additional jobs, money for my community, greater opportunities for friends and their kids to get into the woods, and yes my property rights and additional time with my son in the future. This WOULD apply statewide. Where is the selfish, narrowminded angle of my post. Your follow up posts from then on have been a pitiful scramble to grab at straws and support your stance without giving facts or even supported opinions. Each angle you've tried has been to soley benifit you in the end and thats fine. Its your right, but dont be upset when the majority of replies come from those who are looking at the bigger picture. No one has attacked you. Your stance is on the same side as PETA, FB, VDHA, and HSUS to name a few. No one said you were a member. Why so defensive, and why are you responding to my post as if you know me? Especially when you lash out at my post without regard to what it actually stated. To my knowledge we have never meet.
PERSONAL REASONPERSONAL REASONFor years I've tried to get the game commission on one particular piece of property I own in central Virginia to make some arrests for poaching deer year end and year out as well as for continued trespassing and numerous other violations and honestly I don't think they could catch a cold! To make matters worse all I hear is constant whining about how they don't have the manpower, the money, budget, help, blah, blah, blah and are out of ideas on how to catch these people. This has been going on for 25 years yet these folks are so blatant in their game law offenses I could catch these people in my sleep but I can't make an arrest and even if I tried I could face civil liability for alleged wrongdoing or worse get shot. It's a total joke. The game commission can not even enforce the game laws 6 days of the week and yet they are pushing the Sunday hunting like there is no tomorrow. Until or unless they can properly enforce these laws 6 days a week I don't think they need to pass Sunday hunting.Fixed this one for you.I will also tell you that this not an isolated event. I own two large farms and have this issue on both farms and hunt another 2500 acre farm and have the same issues. It's a total joke. People have no respect for anyone else's property or property rights these days. It's no wonder no one will give anyone permission to hunt on their property anymore.
So just to give another perspective on Sunday hunting from a lifelong hunter and property owner in Virginia and why I currently don't support it. I'm all ears though on hearing from the game commission on how and when they can fix MY issue as right now I'm lucky to get a return phone call!
VDIGF in their press release stated that NOT allowing Sunday hunting was a poor method of game management. Just to add some actual facts to the debate.....Virginia Board of Game and Inland Fisheries:
Official Position Regarding Hunting on Sunday in Virginia
RICHMOND — The Board of the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (the "Board") declares its support for the repeal of the statutory prohibition on Sunday Hunting in Virginia.
Board Supports Lifting Statutory Prohibition on Sunday Hunting
WHEREAS, the right of the people to "hunt, fish, and harvest game" is protected by Article XI, Section 4 of the Constitution of Virginia, subject only to regulations and restrictions prescribed by the General Assembly; and
WHEREAS, Virginia's Sunday laws can be traced back to the early British colonies in Virginia; then continued in the early 20th century ostensibly as a means of protecting Virginia wildlife populations from over hunting, and
WHEREAS, modern science confirms the Virginia ban on Sunday hunting serves no biological purpose and is counterproductive to matters of game management; and
WHEREAS, those states that have removed prohibitions on Sunday hunting have not experienced any discernible impact on the desirable health or vibrancy of game populations; and
WHEREAS, Sunday hunting will provide the Department of Game and Inland Fisheries (the "Department") and its biologists with a new tool to manage wildlife populations by encouraging increased and concentrated hunting in areas of overpopulation; and
WHEREAS, the Commonwealth has experienced a substantial decline in hunting participation by both in-state and out-of-state hunters over the past several decades, with license sales falling in both absolute and relative numbers; and
WHEREAS, youth participation is necessary to maintain a hunting tradition in Virginia, we can effectively double the number of hunting days for youth during the school year by opening Sunday, and
WHEREAS, Sunday hunting is an effective means of recruiting new hunters and increasing the value of the licenses for existing hunters of all ages by providing additional opportunity for adults and youth to spend time in the field; and
WHEREAS, Sunday hunting is expected to generate a substantial increase in out-of-state licenses sales and resultant revenues for the Department due to an additional weekend hunting day; and
WHEREAS, Sunday hunting will provide a substantial economic benefit to the Commonwealth's tourism industry, particularly in rural areas and businesses, by increasing the money spent locally by resident and non-resident hunters alike on hunting equipment, gas, food, lodging and other incidental items; and
WHEREAS, the Department is funded almost entirely by the constituents it serves, a large number of whom are hunters; and
WHEREAS, hunting license sales and their associated federal matching funds are the largest single revenue source available to the Department for carrying out its mission, including acquisition of public lands and private easements for wildlife management, hunting access and conservation; and
WHEREAS, Sunday hunting will help ensure that future generations have the opportunity to participate in a sport that is an important part of the Commonwealth's heritage; and
WHEREAS, the Board of Game and Inland Fisheries recognizes that this facet of game management is entirely within the purview of the General Assembly; and
WHEREAS, if the General Assembly lifts the ban on Sunday Hunting, it is recognized that this action will affect a much broader stakeholder group than just hunters, and the Board will engage these groups in dialogue before passing any new regulations.
NOW, THEREFORE, we, the Board of the Virginia Department of Game and Inland Fisheries, do hereby urge the General Assembly to REPEAL the PROHIBITION ON SUNDAY HUNTING IN THE COMMONWEALTH OF VIRGINIA.
Here is an economic impact study on Sunday hunting. Granted done by a sportsmens org, but still based upon FACTS. The information was compiled by research done on the states that allow it.