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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I see a lot of discussion and even spread sheets about who should be recognized in Virginia as really something each year.!!??

A lot of us Maryland people are interested in how someone decides that in Virginia. Up here, we often don't have time or even care enough to run every nice fish to be documented before filleting and icing it. Most anglers don't take the time to register anything unless it be a potential state or IGFA line class record.

Someone told me it was "a southeastern click that competitively fished among themselves and agree with each other about who's best on tidal fish." That's hard to believe, as I know Brandon and know that he's very good on content quality control.

The best measure we have up here is who, over a couple decades, is very often in the money when it is a money tournament. Otherwise, we follow the NMFS MFSS results for general trends.

Thanks for any responses helping me understand just what this is about.

Sincerely and Tight lines,
Capt Richie
 

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Ah, once again Big Jim says so much, so clearly, in so few words. THANKS! :)
 

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Hi Captrichie,
The Virginia Saltwater Fishing Tournament is a program in which angers earn citations for trophy fish, and recognition for the largest catch for the year for a species, and state records. Angler of the Year was one a few awards removed from the program a few years back. The others I recall included Release Angler of the Year and the Grand Slam (cobia, black drum, and red drum in a day). A committee gives input for the changes. TF has nothing to do with it.
Hope this helps! :D
Julie

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DANG JIM, you are truly a reverend in the Church of the Painful Truth...

well said.
 

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I can understand why the Angler of the year was dropped. A discussion took place in a VCU statistics class several years ago obout the odds of the winning angler catching over 1/3 of their total citations with the exact required weight or length. Not 2 ounces over citation or 3 inches over but exact. We calculated the odds and they were astronomical. You had a better chance at winning the lottery.

Barracuda48
 

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That would work great if people actually caught fish in statistic classes. However, statistics do not take into account the experience and skill of the angler. I would imagine that in order to do the calculations it was assumed that all anglers are created equal but that's certainly not the case. Of course, you have already made an assumption about the size of the fish being very close to citation weight but in reality most everyone would have a few fish that are much larger than the minimum.

If I remember the debate, the biggest reason it was discontinued is that the contest for Angler of the year was not fair to all Virginians as those in Southeast Virginia had opportunities for fish that people up the bay did not have any opportunity to catch, namely offshore species and a number of species that simply do not venture much north of Cape Charles. If a contest is not fair to all participants then the validity of the contest comes into question. There were some lesser reasons as well but I think that the vast majority agree that it was appropriate that the contest be discontinued.

It should be noted that a few individuals still keep very close count on these things however there is no program that validates the counts or rewards those who have more than six specie citations (expert angler) in a given year.

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I agree all fisherman are not created equal and it does take experience and skill to land a large number of citations in a year (I'd be happy with 1 or 2) but if I land 20 citations in a year and 8 of them are exactly the size for citation whether it be weight or length I'm sure someones eyebrows would be raised. That was the questioned posed to the professor the odds of this happening. Me, I don't care either way. I'm just happy to get to go fishing occasionally.

Barracuda48
 

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You are correct Sir !!
Not everyone in Virginia chases paper. And I don't recall any who is the best on tidal fish threads either. :D
And I happen to be one of them - 2- 45 rock releases in Jan last year,no papers filed.
2 tagged and released citation flounder**rather have the T-Shirt** plus 3 spades all over 10 pounds went in the freezer - 1 drum and 1 cobia too kissed & released- no papers. i know theres some sorta 5 species or maybe 6 something or another but i dont bother, if i did a tog,seabass or trout aint too hard to come by.........

I turned in CATFISH ( I didnt however turn in the 43 pounder from 2 weeks ago- the video is much better than the paper on the wall- but thats 2007 already ) & Crappie freshwater but it s not called citations its :
Virginia Angler Recognition Program, with only few 100 in the whole state each year vise - 5296 (right Rob ? )in saltwater......how hard can it be ?
 

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Richie,

Just a different sub-culture. Average folks who like the added challenge of shooting for a goal. Gettin' paper is attainable challenge when the size/weight is set right. For many, paper makes fishing more challenging and enjoyable when they succeed. And gives them a little reason to feel proud.

I know where you are coming from, as I asked the same question some years ago. Now that I live here, I see that it's mostly just good natured competition. Of course, certain ones will cheat. They probably didn't get enough love as a child, or something. Oh well. Most people don't really care one way or another.

Glad to see you are still kicking. Best wishes.

-TH
 

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One that is very nice is the Junior Angler award. And Virginia is kind enough to grant that to children from MD as well. :) We come down there a few times a year and didn't really know about it until last year so Michelle got her certificate a few months back. Good thing since she'll be 16 in April.

Here's the scoop - "Young anglers (15 years and younger) catching and releasing 6 different species of saltwater fish during the year earn an award certificate, baseball hat and decal. The program is free, there are no minimum size limits for the fish, and virtually all species of saltwater fish qualify." http://www.mrc.state.va.us/vswft/vsft10.shtm
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks and just a couple thoughts...

Anglers,

Thank you all for giving your opinion and perspectives! In particular, thanks to Big Jim, TH, Carter and of course Julie Ball. Also, thank you for putting up with my difficult comments written while intense pain. (see below).

The Virgina Marine Resources Commission does OK in their explanation on their website too. I understand how these things promote tourism and economic opportunity in Va, and I support that.

My concern was something different. Perhaps it is BEST called the use of a tourism and and public tax dollars aimed at development of Virginia, for personal profit. I have known, and buried too many great Charter and Recreational anglers to ever think their was any way to get a handle on who really was the best. The only thing I even know about them is that often they don't say much and that they are a tremendous resource - and I hope that all anglers will learn to pay them if necessary to learn any new techniques and their ageless wisdom.
Please just this: if you go to a seminar, whoever is speaking is probably just fine. But demand they give and opinion on any reasonable questions. Then you make your own decision. Ok?

I'm not going to say anything more except that I had to bury my Mother Saturdy, and of course Dad a few years ago, and my Big Brother 20 years ago. My Pastor, advises me to chill for at least a year. I'm going to follow his and the Lords guidance.

Tight lines,

Richie
 

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question on expert anglers

It should be noted that a few individuals still keep very close count on these things however there is no program that validates the counts or rewards those who have more than six specie citations (expert angler) in a given year.
Jim I am confused by that comment. Doesn't the VMRC keep count and give some kind of reward for the expert anglers? How would you validate the counts? You can't know whether or not people lie but I would hope that isn't too common.

http://www.mrc.virginia.gov/vswft/2005/vswftexpertanglerlist2005.pdf
 

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My .02

While I'm not sure about the connection is with your personal family loss and the VA Citation program - here is my .02:

Many of the Atlantic States have similar Citation programs (MD & VA are the programs I'm most familiar with). While any program will breed competition, for my customers, and for my business, it is a fun thing for the anglers and a big business bonus for us.

"Angler of the Year", or number of citations - if measured by number of Citation fish, is a prize of opportunity, and as Big Jim pointed out, also a measure of networking and effort. If you're not into the competition aspect, then just enjoy the Citation. If you're not into the Citations, then just enjoy the fishing.

Like any other program that recognizes achievements, some will achieve more, some less, for whatever the reason. From my personal vantage point, both the MD and VA Citation programs have been popular and successful for both recreational anglers and for guys like me who enjoy (and profit) when people catch a Citation. Maybe they'll want to come back and book another trip to beat their last fish!!! "Two thumbs way up from Brincefield and Brincefield!!!!"

Capt. Jim Brincefield
www.captjim.com
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Jim - What??

Jimmy,

I don't know what you mean? I was talking about the merits of crowning someone
"Angler of the Year" and exactly what that means/meant.

Certainly the ability of your clients to "earn" a citation is important. I have always supported this.

But, what you are saying sounds like if a client of yours caught, and, cared to register more citations than another captains customers cared to register, they were the best that year in that state.
Now I think Lou, Joe and Sonny told me that could fish circles around you!!?? Whether they are right or not, makes no difference. What matters is what "Angler of the Year" means!! Kerry M. told me that was all in house competitive stuff. What ever!!

Maybe you chopped out your response without realizing what was actually being discussed?

Whatever, leave my loved ones out of this. That was simply something inserted for a couple people who know what was going on.

Finally, good luck on your move to Virginia.

Sincerely,
Capt Richie
 
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