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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I'm continuing to try new patterns and materials. The top fly in the pic below is my attempt at a deceiver but it's tied with Fishair instead of bucktail. The main body is white Fishair with some polar flash mixed in and there is chartreuse and light pink Fishair for a collar.

The bottom fly is tied with super hair, red over orange over yellow, with some gold crystal flash and copper flashabou mixed in. It ended up being longer than I intended.

All you pickerel guys, do you think it's too long?

Thanks. David

 

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How'd u get the body to stay up like that on the bottom fly when epoxying. I'd like to tie some jiggies like that with a lead head. Deadly for big blues.
 

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Bottom fly is spot on. I use a little smaller hook or more materiel(ep fibers) to cover more of the hook. You will need that to get into the salad, so I always go bendback style. All white with red flash has done nicely for me on the mill ponds. Size is fine. I wouldn't go any smaller. Make sure you have a bunch. cause they chewed up quickly. I don't take the time to epoxy the head for that very reason. After you catch one, the ep fibers can be combed back out. Make them a tad bit thicker and you can watch the fly widdle away, but still get some more use out of it. I also wrap some lead weight right at the length of the shank. Usually one pass along the shank with the ep fibers for the belly and 2 or 3 passes for the back. This usually hides the hook point to keep grass off.

Greg
 

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David,
A 22 inch pickerel can fit a soda can in its mouth... Those flies aren't too big brother. Jamie has a picture of and average size pickerel that horked up a 10 inch pickerel on his boat. With that profile, they would whack it at twice the size.
They look good. You aren't making any of the normal "new tyer" mistakes. You are doing very well.
 

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Nothing like bucktail

I know we've around on this several times but I have tried every syhthetifc I can get my hands on and nothing works like bucktail..... consistently works.... I like tying them such that the hooks rides up.... this set up in a barbless makes for very easy releases....
 

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I disagree, Sandeel, in the case of pickerel particularly (say that 10 times fast).

While I agree that nothing moves like bucktail, it's gonna get shredded in short order by pickerel, sometimes only one fly per fish...I've had it happen. When fishing for pickerel, I'm using articial fibers only, they're gonna last five times as long. And I think epoxy is okay, too, b/c pickerel will also shred thread wraps....

I use a yellow or chartreuse over white superhair clouser with gold flash, size 2, about 3-4 inches long, expoxy the head/wraps/eyes....and seriously, it's the only the only fly I've ever needed.

I'm all about keeping it simple, minimizing by time at the vice in order to maximize fly lifetime on the water.

Anyway, David, nice job and they'll catch, although I wouldn't use the top fly only b/c if it ain't weedless or riding hook-up like a clouser, yer gonna get a ton of hangups and lose the fly. And even with a clouser, if yer not getting hung up yer not fishing deep enough or close enough to cover.

My 2C
 

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Yeah... bucktail gets munched. If there is one single fish that doesn't care too much about flies it is a pickerel. Sometimes it does matter... but they are so very aggressive...
Honestly... load up on flash for a pickerel. Because you will lose some with each take. You can always pull some off on the water... you can never put some on.

As far as bucktail vs syns.. for david particularly... it is vital that he keeps on pluggin along with every possible material. Synthetics can do things that naturals can't and vise versa. Don't discount a huge part of tying because of some early set backs.
Have you still been working on mushmouths david?
 

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David,

Nice! Especially the bottom fly. Not too long. One of my favorite heathen baits when the water is warmer in a 5" BA. I would add more flash as Tony said, and keep it 1/2" longer than the rest of the materials like you have done. Pickerel are suckers for the flashtail look. That fly will catch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for the replies everyone.

jrzfly, before I tied in the super hair I made a good sized thread bump behind the tie-in point. That way the super hair keeps the angle up away from the shank. I worked in a little epoxy just to make sure it stays there.

So Tony, what are some of those new tier mistakes so I know not to make them? I haven't tried any of the mushies yet. I've been thinking of tying a really big bunker pattern like the one you showed us at WCO but with a tandem hookset. I'm not sure it will work but I figured I'd give it a shot.

Yeah Doug, I wasn't planning on using the top fly for pickles. I just threw it in the pic as an example of trying to tie a deceiver with the Fishair.

Thanks again everyone for the help. David
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks Tony, duly noted.

What are your thoughts on a big Farrar type fly with a tandem hookset in it?

David
 

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David,
They look great. I can't wait to see how the FisHair does in the water.

It is one of the many synthetics I've been trying on clousers for the HRBT. I'm basically just trying a bunch of different stuff to see which I like.


What is the difference between unique hair and super hair?????
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Hey Pete. Not really sure. I think maybe they have a slightly different diameter and kink seems to be slightly different.

David
 

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Hey David...another real common rookie mistake is tieing stuff WAAAAAYYY to full...sparse is better, sparser than you think.

I once saw a guy hammering nice light-line stripers at night on the south shore of the Cape...his fly, and I swear I am not exaggerating, had 4-5 strands of bucktail, one strand of crystal flash, and a mylar body.

I caught nothing with my regular ties, which were WAY too full.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Thanks Doug. I've definitely heard that. Do you think it has anything to do with the water clarity? I'm guessing up there the water was pretty clear, at least that's what I've seen in pictures. In our greenish-brown Bay water I would think that a fly that sparse would almost disappear and be overlooked by the fish. David
 

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Thanks Tony, duly noted.

What are your thoughts on a big Farrar type fly with a tandem hookset in it?

David
BTW.. ultra/unique.. different diameter.

I have tied them specifically for a friend who fishes wahoo off wrecks in NC. They work. I can show you the set up next time i see you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Cool Tony. I picked up some Seven Strand coated wire and I have some 6/0 AKIs and 4/0 Octopus hooks that I think will work. I got that from a thread on Brian's site about the hooksets they use down in CR for sails. The wire I have isn't quite as big (I have 27lb) though. Looking forward to seeing how it's done. Thanks again. David
 

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David,

I have a ton of good quality stainless single-strand that works well for tandems. Let me know if you want some.
 

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David,
What hook is that on the pickerel fly?

Cutter,
I've been trying to picture how you use that wire in your day job, is it tieable?
 

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ChesBay
It is the packing mandril from angioplasy balloon catheters. 100cm of 0.035" stainless. Not too stiff, not too floppy. Durable as can be, and we throw out miles of it.
Here is a rigged tandem:


cut a 10" piece of wire, bend in half without kinking. Pass both ends forward through the back hook with a limb on either slide of the hookshank. Lay both wires along the shank of the forward hook, through the eye and bend back along the shank. Whip all 4 wires flat against the forward hookshank with kevlar thread. (Regular tying thread will be cut by wire during a fight.) Lightly coat with epoxy.

Sorry to hijack.
 
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