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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
On a few other threads the mortality of Rockfish from C&R fishing was brought up. I thought it was an important enough subject that should have its own thread.
It seemed pretty much split among most people about how many were actually killed during C&R, some thought many, some didn't think many at all, a few actually even said none were. I personally think in most cases there are less fish killed by people that C&R then people that keep fish, but I think a lot more are killed then most realize. It may seem rare to deep hook a fish so badly that it doesn't look like it will survive (maybe 1% of the time or less). But just because a fish looks healthy when released, it doesn't mean it will survive, even when the water is cold. The stress that the fish goes through from fighting for their life can be tremendous. most fish that are released will probally develop lactic acid build up, its basically the same thing humans go through when their muscles become stiff and sore after a vigorous workout, only its worse on fish because the same muscle that are damaged are the same muscles they need to swim, even If it doesn't kill them directly, It could make them much slower for many days (or even longer) And even immobile for a while, and far less likely to escape pedators like Bluefish, Sharks, porpoises, crabs, snapping turtles, even other Rockfish just to name a few.
If they are bleeding when released, they are at an even bigger risk from prey because the blood may attract the predators.
One thing that I and Im sure others have witnessed in the past while C&Ring many fish,Is that the released fish will actually attract predators and they will hang under the boat and attack any fish that is released, its easy picking for them because the fish released are disoriented at first, in a worst case scenario,if you are releasing hundreds of fish, most could possibly get killed, a single person C&Ring could possibly kill more fish then an entire fleet of Charters! I know it sounds far fetched, but its possible on rare occasions.
Even if they survive all that they may still be at risk from diseases from the stress or the wound they obtained from being caught, disease may not kill them for weeks, months or even years!
I still think you usually will kill less fish by C&R, but the point im trying to make is that its impossible to know, anyone that says they know exactly how many are killed during C&R are BSing you.. when people just instantly assume that no fish are killed during C&R, well you know what they say about people that ASS U Me:D
 

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You're talking about me, Zam. Why don't you just come out and say it. As I said before, I'm happy to take you out and show you C&R practices that will keep you from killing so many fish. I'll even help you shew away those scary preditors under your boat if you want me to!

C&R is looked at as a conservation practice practically everywhere in the world. I'll happily stand by my statment that 250 out of 250 fish caught on single hook jigs and properly released at the CBBT this time of year likely survive. There's always the possibility that some will die, maybe they swallow a hook, maybe they get hit by a prop, who knows. Fishing kills fish. But, C&R as a conservation management practice protects fish. It's up to each of us individually to develop and practice techniques that keep the fish alive. Some people are better than others, some people just don't know. All that is considered when agencies put together management plans. Since you don't think there's a problem with the population, why is it bothering you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No it wasn't about you personally Shawn, the topic has been on a lot of threads lately, and there were a lot of people that seemed to think the mortality was very low, I was just giving my take on the subject
 

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Another Zammish Commentary

Dear Mr. Zam;
If I articulate my opinion again are you going to send me another Private Message with insulting foul language and offensive name calling?
Because if you are, I won't post this comment.
Thank you.
 

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I look at how many Large Mouth bass are C/R many times.Trout - which are fragile - are often C/R many times on the C/R only streams.C/R fishing works well.

Rock do fine - other then in hot summer temperatures.Do some die- no doubt but the guys who catch a lot are very good at getting them back quickly.

Fish are tougher then most people realize.Look at this poor fellow.



Best C/R tool is education on doing it right.
 

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Let's not ignore the psychological impact on the fish who believes it cheated death, or of the fisherman who has to face the skeptical peanut gallery back at the dock.

I have one question: What is the point of raising this topic? (Serious question.) Do you propose that C&R be outlawed, limited or otherwise regulated in a way that it currently is not? If we believe that mortality is higher certain times of year and using certain methods, I have no issue with the state addressing that. But I'd hate to discourage what seems to be a very conservation-oriented method, practiced by conservation-oriented folks, in blanket fashion or without strong supporting data.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Dear Mr. Zam;
If I articulate my opinion again are you going to send me another Private Message with insulting foul language and offensive name calling?
Because if you are, I won't post this comment.
Thank you.
Its not like I wasn't provoked, its not the first time you made rude comments about me either;-)
 

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Fishing kills fish.
I have to agree with Shawn on this one. Proper C&R lowers the mortality rate, but no matter what you do some fish will die, its the nature of the beast.

I would have to see it with my own eyes to believe, but i do not buy that a cold water CBBT fish will die from being lip hooked and released instantly without even taking a picture.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Let's not ignore the psychological impact on the fish who believes it cheated death, or of the fisherman who has to face the skeptical peanut gallery back at the dock.

I have one question: What is the point of raising this topic? (Serious question.) Do you propose that C&R be outlawed, limited or otherwise regulated in a way that it currently is not? If we believe that mortality is higher certain times of year and using certain methods, I have no issue with the state addressing that. But I'd hate to discourage what seems to be a very conservation-oriented method, practiced by conservation-oriented folks, in blanket fashion or without strong supporting data.
I mainly made the thread because I have been reading a lot of post lately about how c&r is harmless, and its not. I just thought I would help educate some of the people
 

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I mainly made the thread because I have been reading a lot of post lately about how c&r is harmless, and its not. I just thought I would help educate some of the people
Does that mean you are going to stop C&R ZAM?
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
I look at how many Large Mouth bass are C/R many times.Trout - which are fragile - are often C/R many times on the C/R only streams.C/R fishing works well.

Rock do fine - other then in hot summer temperatures.Do some die- no doubt but the guys who catch a lot are very good at getting them back quickly.

Fish are tougher then most people realize.Look at this poor fellow.



Best C/R tool is education on doing it right.
But Skip that fish isn't injured from C&R, looks like a snapping turtle or something
 

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Zam, since you bring the topic up, I think you should also provide us with any differences in mortality rates between C&R with bait, live bait, artificial bait, artificial lures, hook size, hook type, water temperatures, size of fish, species of fish, etc. so that we can have a better understanding and additional details to consider.
 

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I don't see how this thread provides anything productive. What suggestions do you have? Your theories sound reasonable, but what hard facts/data do you have? Should we just catch and kill within the legal limit? Are there suggested C&R techniques you recommend for increased odds of the fish living? Does the percentage of people practicing C&R even pale in comparison to commercial fishing and the impacts associated with it? Should we stop fishing and feed the sea kittens?
 

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Fish are tougher then most people realize.Look at this poor fellow.
Skip, that was going to be my point. I have caught a number of fish, even big ones that had obviously been caught before. Either there was a scar in or around there mouth. I have even caught ones that look like half their mouth was ripped off. They had healed well and were still healthy and strong. (these were old injuries).

I'm not saying that C&R is 100% perfect. I am sure there are some (esp in the summer) that might not make it. However i think we don't give these fish enough credit.

I have caught LM with hooks deep in there stomachs. It must still be eating, it went after my lure. (I was able to actually get that hook out with very little damage to the fish and it swam off just fine).

This is just my opinion... (Which is probable worthless!! :yes: )

Zam, keep catching fish and posting your reports! It helps us weekend warriors get through the week!
 
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