Tidal Fish Forum banner
1 - 6 of 6 Posts

404 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This is the DNR proposal for the upper bay MOW Shoal.

This is one of the letters I received from Joe Zinner on the dredging of MOW shoals

Attachment 1:

Project Description:

This project will permit the Maryland Department of Natural Resources (MD DNR) to dredge oyster shell from Man O War Shoals in Baltimore County, Maryland. Oyster shells will be recovered using hydraulic dredging equipment. The shells will be transported and planted at a variety of restoration sites around the Bay. The purpose of this project is to rehabilitate oyster bar habitat to enhance natural recruitment and/or provide a foundation for seed oysters to work toward the reestablishment of an abundant and self-sustaining oyster population in support of the Chesapeake Bay Program 2000 Agreement and the 2005 Oyster Management Plan.

Permit Time Period:
A 10-year period from 2009 through 2018 is being requested.

Time of Year that Shell will be Recovered and Planted:
Approval is requested to dredge and plant oyster shells year round.

Permit Areas for Shell Dredging:
Approval is requested for the Man O War Shoals area in Baltimore County (attachment 2).

Monitoring and Project Performance:
The environmental and socio-economic risks and benefits of this project will be monitored throughout the project period with a comprehensive evaluation provided to the permit agencies after five years.

Amount of Shell to be Recovered and Size of Shell Recovery Areas:
Authorization is requested for the recovery of up to 30 million bushels of shell during the 2009-2018 permit time period. This is approximately 30% of the estimated shell volume of Man O War Shoal. The amount of shell that will be recovered annually will be based upon the objectives and strategies of Maryland's oyster recovery program as well as the available funding.

Methods for Shell Recovery and Planting:
Shells will be recovered using a dredging barge equipped with a hydraulic dredge using a cutter head and/or vacuum head that swings left and right. Dredge cuts will be made along the perimeter of the shoal, leaving a central "backbone" intact, to minimize any potential hydrological impact and to yield variable topography for fish habitat. The location of the cuts will be determined through surveys performed by DNR and in coordination with the Maryland Oyster Advisory Commission and other stakeholder groups working with DNR on this issue. Each dredge cut will be no wider than 500' and go no further than 1/3 the distance through the shoal, with a minimum of 75' of un-dredged bottom left between cuts. Due to the varied thickness of the shell at Man O War Shoals, the cuts will vary in depth. Shell is estimated to vary from 15' thick to possibly 40' thick (Attachment 3). Shell will be dredged to a depth appropriate for the cut site and gear used by the contractor. A minimum thickness of 2 feet of shell will be left in place at the bottom of each cut.

The shells and shell fragments will be separated on site from the finer sediment materials and retained on a shell barge. The sediments will be discharged with the wash water that is used to clean the shells on the barge. The shells and shell fragments will then be transported to another site for planting, using high pressure water hoses or cannons to wash the material off the shell barge onto the oyster bar. In some cases (small sites) the shell material may be planted using a crane, excavator, or similar equipment to unload the barge.

Shell Planting Sites - Location and Size:
Replanting of the dredged shells will occur within the following oyster bar management designations: sanctuaries, harvest reserves and/or open harvest areas. The identification of shell planting sites will be based upon scientific findings of the Programmatic Environmental Impact Statement for Oyster Restoration in the Chesapeake Bay and in coordination with the Maryland Oyster Advisory Commission, Maryland's Tidewater Oyster Committees and other interested parties as needed. The planting of shell will also be consistent with the guidelines provided in the Chesapeake Bay Program Oyster Management Plan.

Assuming that the recovered shell will be replanted at an average thickness of 3-inches (7500 bushels per acre), and assuming the full 30 million bushels of requested volume will be utilized, it is estimated that 4000 acres will be planted over the 10 year time period of the permit. Shell planting will occur in depths predominantly from 8' to 20' since this is where oyster bars and oyster populations mostly occur. The thickness of the shell will be from 3" to 6" in most plantings but may be thicker in some cases. All plantings will maintain a minimum of 8' clearance to preserve navigable waters.

Stakeholder Coordination:
The MD DNR will coordinate the shell dredging and planting program with the Maryland Oyster Advisory Commission, Tidewater Oyster Committees, and other interested parties as necessary. Included in this coordination will be the overall objectives for the program, the allocation of material among management designations, location of shell planting sites, project specification guidelines, and project performance standards.

Maryland Historical Trust has been consulted and determined that there are no archeological/cultural concerns within the proposed dredging area (Attachment 4). This project will have no impact to submerged aquatic vegetation (SAV) as there are no SAV beds delineated in or adjacent to the proposed permit area (Attachment 5).

Project Justification:

Based on the Maryland Oyster Advisory Commission's 2007 Interim report, clean (sediment-free) oyster shell or a comparable substrate is essential for successful settlement of oyster larvae. A recent study reported that more than 80% of Maryland's oyster habitat has been significantly impacted by sediment over the past 25 years, and much of the habitat that remains is of poor quality consisting of shell with heavy sedimentation (Smith el al. 2005).

More than 10,000 acres of oyster bar habitat will likely need to be rehabilitated to re-establish a population of oysters comparable to the levels observed between 1920 and 1970. Given the estimated shell capacity of Man O War Shoals and the scale to which habitat rehabilitation is needed, MD DNR recognizes that shell dredging alone will not meet the habitat needs of the program. The ability of MD DNR and its oyster partners to achieve this objective will depend upon the prudent use of available oyster shells, combined implementation of new programs, and continued exploration of innovative strategies.

MD DNR is working closely with our oyster partners to develop alternative strategies for rehabilitating oyster bar habitat consistent with the guidelines provided in the 2005 Chesapeake Bay Oyster Management Plan. The strategies currently being pursued are an expanded alternate material program and a new program involving the recovery of shell that was previously planted as part of the upper bay shell program but which is currently covered with sediment.


Smith, G. F., D. G. Bruce, E. B. Roach, A. Hansen, R. I. E. Newell, A. M. McManus. 2005. Assessment of Recent Habitat Conditions of Eastern Oyster Crassostrea virginicus Bars in Mesohaline Chesapeake Bay. North American Journal of Fisheries Management 25:1569-1590.

View Public Profile
Find all posts by scott67
Add scott67 to Your Contacts

#18 (permalink) 11-23-2008, 07:53 PM
Tidal Fish Subscriber - I Support Tidal Fish Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 313



Scott 67-- Thanks for posting the proposal. Can you imagine this happening all over the bay ??? It could if DNR etc. get their way.
Plasticfish- 19' Twin Vee

View Public Profile
Send a private message to plasticfish93
Send email to plasticfish93
Find all posts by plasticfish93
Add plasticfish93 to Your Contacts

#19 (permalink) 11-23-2008, 07:55 PM
New TF Poster - Not a Tidal Fish Subscriber Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6


Here is another letter I received from Joe hope this can be stoped

Marylland Hiisttoriicall Trustt
Martin O'Malley
Richard Eberhart Hall
Anthony G. Brown
Lt. Governor
Matthew J. Power
Deputy Secretary
100 Community Place ● Crownsville, Maryland 21032-2023
Telephone: 410.514.7600 ● Fax: 410.987.4071 ● Toll Free: 1.800.756.0119 ● TTY Users: Maryland Relay
Internet: Maryland Historical Trust
November 14, 2008 Mr. Eric Campbell DNR Chesapeake Shellfish Program 580 Taylor Ave, B-2 Annapolis, Maryland 21401 Re: Proposed shell dredging permit application for Man O War shoals Dear. Mr. Campbell: DNR Chesapeake Shellfish Program contacted the Maryland Historical Trust (Trust) on behalf of the Oyster Advisory Commission about the presence of known historic resources within Man O War shoals prior to submitting a new shell dredging permit application. Furthermore, DNR provided a rectilinear boundary delineated by the following coordinates defining the project area: 39 11' 23.164" N, 076 23' 23.922" W; 39 11' 23.164" N, 076 21' 12.053" W; 39 10' 43.065" N, 076 23' 23.922" W; and, 39 10' 43.065" N, 076 21' 12.053"W. The Trust's records indicate that there are no known historic resources within this area. The Craighill Channel Lower Range Front Light Station, built in 1873 and listed on the National Register of Historic Places, is directly to the West of the project area within the partial boundary of Man O War Shoals and should be avoided. Any type of dredging activities have the potential to impact unknown historical resources. The Trust requests that if historic or archaeological materials (e.g., ceramics, arrowheads, bones, stone tools, historic wooden structures, etc.) are discovered during activities related to this project, the agency official determine actions that can be taken to resolve adverse effects, and to notify the Trust within 48 hours of discovery.
Thank you for the chance to comment on the proposed undertaking. If you have questions or require further assistance, please contact me at 410-514-7668 or [email protected]. Thank you for providing us this opportunity to comment.
Sincerely, Brian Jordan Assistant State Underwater Archaeologist, Project Review and Compliance

View Public Profile
Find all posts by scott67
Add scott67 to Your Contacts

#20 (permalink) 11-23-2008, 08:06 PM
New TF Poster - Not a Tidal Fish Subscriber Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 6


plasticfish93-- No problem had Joe email it to me so I could post it here. I don't even want
to imagine it happening at all.

View Public Profile
Find all posts by scott67
Add scott67 to Your Contacts

Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >

« Previous Thread | Next Thread »

TidalFish.com Message

Cancel Changes
Quick Reply
The following errors occurred with your submission


Show your signatureQuote message in reply?

Posting Quick Reply - Please Wait

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version
Email this Page
Subscribe to this Thread

Display Modes
Linear Mode
Switch to Hybrid Mode
Switch to Threaded Mode

Search this Thread

Advanced Search

Rate This Thread

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts


BB code is On
Smilies are On
code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump
My Account Private Messages Subscriptions Who's Online Search Forums Forums Home Chesapeake Bay Fishing Forums Chesapeake Angler - The Original Board - Maryland Angler Northern Neck Virginia Angler Virginia Angler Crabbers East Coast Regional Fishing Forums Delaware Angler Florida Angler Florida Keys Angler Georgia Angler Mid Atlantic Inshore Mid Atlantic Offshore Angler New Jersey Angler North Carolina Angler Northeast Angler South Carolina Angler Specialty Fishing Forums Boat Building Boat Electronics and General Electronics Boat Talk Conservation & Policy Fishing Tackle Fly Fishing Anglers Freshwater Fishing Anglers Kayak Fishing Anglers International Offshore Angler Photography Talk Largemouth & Smallmouth Bass Fishing Board Recipes and Cooking - Fish, Crab and other Sea Creature Cooking Recipes Rigging Message Board Rod Building Spear-Fishing & Diving Surf Fishing Fishing Clubs and Fishing Associations Bull Island Anglers Club Fish Tales Buggs Island Striper Club Dolphinfish Tagging Guys & Dolls Couples Tournaments MSSA (Maryland Saltwater Sportfishermen's Association Norfolk Anglers Club Ocean City Marlin Club Saltwater Fly Anglers of Delaware SRRKC Fishing Club UNC Chapel Hill Fishing Club Upper Elk River Rats Wish A Fish Foundation Other Specialty Forums BS Board Chesapeake Hunting Handyman Forum Lateral Line Apparel Feedback Research and Design Off Topic from Fishing - Not BS - Looking for Help, Input and or Ideas Sports Talk: NASCAR, Football, Basketball, Baseball TidalFish.com Site Boards Tidal Fish Site Help, How To, Frequently Asked Questions Board Tidal Fish Site Suggestions and Feedback Tidal Fish Subscriber's Message Board Computer Talk

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:33 PM.

Contact Us - Tidal Fish Fishing Message Boards - All Fishing All the Time - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Link to Us Get a Tidal Fish Subscription Today! Advertise with Tidal Fish Terms of Service Privacy Policy Contact Us About Us

Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC8
©2007 TidalFish.com. All Rights Reserved

LinkBack URL
About LinkBacks

2,032 Posts
Why destroy a bar? Why not seed it and leave it be? The upper bay needs all the structure it can get.
Do we have to payback the dredger for campaign contributions? I don't know, but in the past this program has produced zip, oyster numbers have dropped to historic lows despite this being done. Why not build the substrate with limestone at least it would buffer the water.

How can put and take possibly do anything for the taxpayer? It would make a lot more sense to suport oyster farming and leave the natural beds alone.

562 Posts
The Maryland DNR has been after MOW shoal for Calcium harvest for 30 years. I was at the Essex Public Forum some 20 - 25 years ago. No impact studies were even hinted at back then. They actually allowed the other shoals East and North of MOW to be harvested. They don't want to admit that they may be the cause of the Oyster depletion by allowing this.

If I remember correctly, MOW shoal is the largest natural shoal in the Chesapeake Bay.

I believe that the State authorizes dredging and actually receives a share of the calcium as well as payment from the dredging company. It then sells their share back at market value. I believe thats the way it was back then.

If this is allowed, IMHO, it will drastically hurt fish populations. I don't believe that Oyster
Production is the real intent here. They must think we are dead stupid. Destroy an oyster bar in order to save the oysters. LOL. Thats as good as raising tax's so we can make more money.

These Oyster bar dredgings and the continuous deeping of the C & D canal could be the cause of alot of the Bays problems. Beware my friends, BEWARE!

Premium Member
26,229 Posts
The oyster shells on MOW are very old.New spat does not take to it as well as newer shells.

The oyster farmers use a method were they can use a few dozen shells ground up to plant thousands of spat.The pieces are tiny but enough for the spat to grow on.

Makes no sense to remove the old shells - waste of money.

There is a new oyster reef in the Severn made from cleaned concrete rubble :thumbup: - it is a great base for oysters to grow on.
1 - 6 of 6 Posts