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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
David Corn, The Nation
February 2004
"On December 30 James Comey, the newly ensconced deputy attorney general, held a press conference to announce that Attorney General John Ashcroft had recused himself from the department's investigation of the Bush Administration leak that appeared in a Robert Novak column this past July identifying the wife of former ambassador Joseph Wilson, a critic of Bush's actions in Iraq, as a covert CIA officer. Comey also disclosed that he, filling in for Ashcroft, had selected Patrick Fitzgerald, the US Attorney in Chicago, as a "special counsel" to lead the probe..."

I'm not getting it. If the President is maintaining that it's within his authority to declassify information at will, why didn't he come forward and say so at that time, saving the country a ton of time and money and prevent throwing his loyal servant, Scooter Libby to the prosecutorial "wolves"?[sad]
 

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George, if you had half a brain, you'd be a danger.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
[Q]Capt Frank originally wrote:
CG where are you going with this?
[/Q]Answer my question, then I'll answer yours.
 

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OK, Capt. George. What secret is Libby indicted for leaking?
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
[Q]Capt Frank originally wrote:
I was thinking the same thing Fritz. Was Bush implicated in leaking the Plame stuff. I mean Pres. leak all kinds of stuff, dont they.
[/Q]Have you been sleeping for the last day, or so, Frank? Even Fox News has been carrying this.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Libby was indicted for conduct during testimony that would never have taken place if the White House had acknowledged that the President had authorized declassification of the report, as they are now doing.
 

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Oliver Burkeman in Boston
Friday April 7, 2006
The Guardian

George Bush authorised a senior aide to the vice-president, Dick Cheney, to leak classified intelligence on Iraq to the New York Times reporter Judith Miller, according to court documents made public yesterday.
The revelations were the first to implicate the president in the scandal surrounding the administration's campaign to fight back against charges that it exaggerated the threat posed by Saddam Hussein's regime.

Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Mr Cheney's former chief of staff, told a grand jury that the authorisation from Mr Bush was "unique in his experience", according to the court papers, written by the special prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald.

The presidential authorisation prompted Mr Libby to disclose the information - taken from the government's secret National Intelligence Estimate - to Ms Miller at a meeting in July 2003, at the St Regis hotel in Washington DC.
It was during Mr Libby's several meetings with Ms Miller that he was accused of disclosing the identity of Valerie Plame, an undercover CIA operative married to former US ambassador Joseph Wilson.

Mr Wilson had been sent by the CIA to investigate White House claims that Iraq had tried to buy uranium yellowcake from Niger, subsequently writing a New York Times article rubbishing the idea.

The White House apparently believed Mr Wilson could be discredited if it could be proved that he was sent on the mission at his wife's suggestion. Mr Libby resigned as a result of the scandal and faces five charges of perjury, obstruction of justice and lying to the FBI, while Ms Miller served 85 days in jail for refusing to reveal her source, though she never wrote about Ms Plame.

There was no suggestion in yesterday's documents that Mr Bush authorised the leak of Ms Plame's identity, nor that he committed any crime.
Many of the National Intelligence Estimate's findings, were officially declassified and made public at a White House briefing 10 days later.

But Mr Bush's role in the broader damage limitation exercise will be embarrassing given his repeated condemnation of intelligence leakers.

"Leaks of classified information are bad things. We've got too much leaking in Washington," he said in 2004 in connection with the Plame affair. "I want to know who the leakers are."

He said anyone in his administration discovered to have leaked the CIA operative's name would be fired, and insisted that he did not know of "anybody in my administration who leaked classified information".

The White House had no immediate comment last night, but one potential response by the administration may be to argue that Mr Bush's authorising the release of information automatically renders it declassified. Mr Libby told the grand jury that he had spoken to Mr Cheney's then-counsel, David Addington, who said that Mr Bush's permission to release the classified information "amount to a declassification".

The vice-president's office was referring all queries to Mr Fitzgerald's office.

"The more we hear, the more it is clear this goes way beyond Scooter Libby," Charles Schumer, New York's senior senator and a Democrat, said in a statement.

"President Bush and Vice-President Cheney should fully inform the American people of any role in allowing classified information to be leaked." The chairman of the Democratic National Committee, Howard Dean, said the news showed Mr Bush was willing to leak information for partisan gain, and could "no longer be trusted to keep America safe".

This stuff comes from the Guardian, not exactly conserve media.
 

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[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
[Q]Capt Frank originally wrote:
Was Bush implicated in leaking the Plame stuff.
[/Q]In a word, Yes.
[/Q]

In a word, wrong. Find Fitz's material if necessary.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
[Q]Fritzer originally wrote:
Libby was not indicted for leaking anything.
[/Q]You apparently only type and don't read. You must be great fun in an actual conversation. I never said he was indicted for leaking anything and wrote this in the thread.
Finished waffling yet, enough to answer my original question?
 

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You have to either refute the facts I present, or accept them before we can go on to the next step of answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Still waffling.
The question:
If the President is maintaining that it's within his authority to declassify information at will, why didn't he come forward and say so at that time, saving the country a ton of time and money and prevent throwing his loyal servant, Scooter Libby to the prosecutorial "wolves"?
 

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[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
Still waffling.
The question:
If the President is maintaining that it's within his authority to declassify information at will, why didn't he come forward and say so at that time, saving the country a ton of time and money and prevent throwing his loyal servant, Scooter Libby to the prosecutorial "wolves"?
[/Q]

Because the two issues are unrelated. Classification is an executive branch (defense) decision. All authority to classify and declassify runs through the president. He has the right to classify and declassify at will. All presidents have had it. JFK declassified pictures of Cuba to justify the Cuban missle crisis, for example.

Libby is not in legal jeopardy for leaking secrets. He's accused of perjury. He has not alleged (nor has Fitz) that the president or the VP told him to leak Plames name or position. If he could (and prove it), that would probably be an absolute defense against the leaking charge.

What Libby says is that the VP told him that the president had given him permission to give some of the contents of a National Intellegence Estimate (NIE) to a specfic reporters. While this is certainly a "leak" it is not leaking a secret, because the NIE was declassified by that act. Incidently, you can read the NIE at:

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2003_cr/h072103.html

(It says a lot of things you don't want to hear).

In the process of all of this, Plames name came out. Certainly both Rove and Libby discussed it with reporters, but there were other sources from the govt one of whom who told Bob Woodward before Rove and Libby talked to reporters. A leading candidate is Richard Armitage, one of Colin Powell chief deputies at State.

The CIA demanded an investigation of how her name came out. In the course of the Investigation, apparently, Fitz has discovered that no law was broken by that disclosure, as he has not filed any charges based on leaking against known leakers (Rove and Libby) and others that he is known to know of (Novaks second source and Woodwards).

However, in the course of that investigation, where all executive personell were ordered to co-operate with Fitz (or lose their jobs), Libby told Fitz he first heard of Plame from a reporter (unnamed). Fitz has sworn testimony that he heard it earlier from sources in the government (including Cheney; who testified). Once indicted for perjury, Libby had to step down, as is appropriate. Had he said, "well, I heard it from Cheney, but then it also came back to me from reporters (which was true - Matthew Cooper), his version would have agreed with Fitz's and there would be no indictment.

But since you're not a "detail" kind of person, I'll bet you still don't understand.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
You've got the official White House legal schtick down, that's for sure, and you're probably right that the President didn't do anything illegal. He was, however, less than forthcoming with information that could've taken Scooter out of the hot-seat BEFORE he perjured himself and he was talking absolute BS when he was feeding us the "I can't stand a leaker...If I find one, he'll be gone", ****.
 

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Having Fritzer and Frank condemn anyone for not refuting facts is hypocrisy of the tallest order. I challenge them time after time just to be called names, have the subject changed or spun.
 

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You're so stupid. There was no point here. There were two unrelated events.
 

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Barking Moonbatitus-

We'll attack until we actually believe the garble set forth by our own agenda.
Thats why etouffe, your contant whinning does nothing but reaffirm your own prejudices, without talking about past precidents.
So far all of the cut & pastes presented have not indicated any guilt against Bush. If you found something that hasnt already been tried by the Dems & media, present it.

The last Administration had something like 40 associates convicted of something. When you get close to that number, let me know.
Man Id hate to see what you folks would publish if the POTUS cut a bad fart.[wink]
 
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