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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Over the years I have built a half dozen or so fly rods. I continue to have a problem with the glue used on the thread windings. It seems like the glue just will not set beyond the tacky on about every other rod. I have used different products - most recently Flex Cost to no avail. I thought it might be age of the product as some times it has been a few of years between rods; but, I bought new Flex Coat in August, built a rod which turned out fine and just put the Flex Coat on a second rod yesterday and it will not set beyond the tacky stage. I am at a loss as to why this keeps happening. The mixing directions are followed and done at an appropriate temperature. Any ideas?

Also, when this has happened in the past I could not figure out how to remedy the problem. The first time it happened (about 20 years ago) the rod ultimately wound up in the dumpster. The second time a few years later, I used acetone and eventually got all of the guides off and the rod re-wrapped but that was a real pain and took an unbelievable amount of time and effort. I think the last time it happened (about four years ago) I used a combination of acetone to soften the glue enough to use a razor blade to cut through it. That was still a pain and there is a significant risk of damaging the blank or my fingers.

Is there something that can be done to get the material to finally harden and if not is there a better way to remove the material so I can try again? On one of the previous rods when this happened, someone suggested using a hair dryer to heat the material but that did not work. In the past I have also just let the rod sit for a month to see if the glue would get beyond the tacky stage and that did not work either.

Guy
 

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Guy,
The finish not setting fully is a product of the mixture not being mixed well enough and temperature of the room. When you say sufficient room temp, what is that? For a finish not to set fully, the temp is probably below 70 ish. Crank that thermostat up to 90 and let her spin. Also, when mixing the epoxy, move the spatula around the mixture and let it fold gently over itself. Mix this for about 5 minutes to get the chemical reaction that is needed for full cure. At this point, if it is still way tacky from yesterdays application, mix another batch and apply over the tacky epoxy. PM me if you need further help. Im always lurking on here.

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Kevin,

Thanks for the reply. The amount of time spent mixing is an interesting point. I don't think I have ever spent as long as 5 minutes stirring the mix. For the most recent rod I was working in my basement where the temperature was probably 63/64. When it was apparent the finish was not setting, I moved the rod upstairs where we keep it at 70. For previous rods where the problem occurred I was in former houses and the temperature was probably in the 70 to 72 range.

On a previous rod where the glue only got to the tacky stage I tried applying a second coat and it also stayed tacky. That was the rod that wound up in the trash. The application of the Flex Coat yesterday was pretty thin; I may try a second coat as you suggest.

Guy
 

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Ok. Now you bring another point up. Humidity plays a key roll in the finish process. If your ambient air is humid, anything over about 40, it will have problems. Luckily, one of the benefits of an electric air conditioner or electric heater is that they tend to dry out the room. Where are you located?
Mix the finish (exactly equal parts of both A and B) and stir. However, dont move the spatula, move the cup around the spatula. Moving the spatula tends to mix air bubbles into the mix. If you have air bubbles at the end of 3-5 minutes of mixing, either heat the mixture to release the bubbles, or pour it onto a piece of tinfoil to let the bubbles escape.
It sounds like the mixture wasn't mixed thoroughly.
63 or 64 is way too cool. You want the room as hot as you can get it. When we apply finish, its hot in the room. Minimum of 80, thats my estimate. Some builders even have hot boxes to spin their rods after application. They are very very hot!!


Fingers crossed for you.

Kevin
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Up until two years ago, I lived in Montgomery Co. outside of D. C. where humidity would have been a factor. I now live in Ft. Collins, Colorado where 40% would be a very humid day. A typical day for humidity would be in the 20% to 30% range. We had stretches last summer when it stayed below 15% for days at a time. I had never really considered humidity as a significant factor in the drying process. However, yesterday it rained off and on during the day so the humidity level was probably in the 50% to 60% range.

I don't have a way of heating a particular room to a higher temperature and I don't think my wife would appreciate heating the house to 80. So I may have to relegate rod building to May thru September when we keep the house around 78 to keep the A. C. costs down.

It appears that moving the rod up from the basement to a warmer temperature may solve the problem this time. While the residual material in the mixing cup is still a bit tacky; the windings on the rod appear as though they will harden as they are no longer tacky.

Thanks for your help, you've given me some additional things to think about before starting my next rod. I have one more blank to finish but I will now likely wait until next summer.

Guy
 

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There you go. I think temperature might have been the culprit this time. The cup will remail tacky a bit longer as it is thicker in the cup and thinner on the rod. Keep it warm and it should cure just fine.

Glad to be if help.

Kevin
 

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my wife is pregnant and is going through the "its like the mojave desert in here" when it really is kept at 45 and im in a snowsuit:D but what i do is even without having a prego wife i use a small space heater and put it on my table when i finish finishing. it keeps the finish at a high temp and makes it rock hard.
 

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well i dont have cable tv yet and ive been waiting for my order from acid rod soooo........:D


hey ive got a question... do you use the veneers under guides? or do they crack under the bend.

oh and congrats kevin

mark
 

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I use them under the guides. My process that is in the magazine goes into how to apply and deal with that. It involves precracking before finish is applied. WHen you do, small, hairline cracks will be present. When done before the finish is applied, it will fill the cracks with finish, allowing ot to remain sealed. It's the nature of the beast, I guess. What I am leaning toward it using it on butt wraps and the first guide and then transitioning to a comparable color thread underwrap.
If you don't get the magazine, GET IT!! LOL. Or, you can come tothe EXPO in High Point and I will be presenting a seminar on it.
Thanks again Mark.
 

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expo, high point? do tell.
Yeah Bro. Im presenting this year. Are you going? Let me know and we will go out on Friday night or Saturday night. The Rodmaker dinner is Friday night and its always a good time. Im not gonna be allowed out too late Saturday night as its a school night for me. I have to present at 9 AM on Sunday.:eek2: I will be wrapping thin lam and regular veneers during the demo.
 

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Mark,
Seriously, get on the rodbuilding forum page and go to the expo page on the top left. Rooms are filling up. At this point, the raddison is almost full. Thats where the dinner is friday night for members of the rodbuilding (subscribers). They have about 2 hours of drawings with sweet giveaways to the crowd. One woman won a Clemens lathe last year!!!!

Lodging

Kevin
 
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