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Humans manage natural resources!
It seems that humans have taken over and become mother nature. I watched National Geographic last night and they had a show where the topic was saving the African crocodiles. It seems they need transmitters on them now! They have been around two million years but now need man's intervention:eek2: All we have to do is leave things to the real mother nature and not screw them up. We have all the studies and tests from the bay.............leave the oysters alone and they will clean the bay......pretty simple. Man is the problem.....not the answer...............Gary
 

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If it was only that simple...The biggest problem with the oysters today is pollution and the diseases like Dermo and MSX that are spawned by it. Harvest has very little to do with it.
Oysters are filter feeders, and they just can't live in waters where they will constantly filter contaminants into their system (unless their natural habitat is altered in some way like putting them on floats or something ofcoarse)On the Trail of Oyster Disease in the Chesapeake Bay
 

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Zam, you need to have a tête-à-tête with the human-re-introduced Severn River oysters to set them straight. They're mistakenly thriving despite living in some pretty crappy water.
 

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If it was only that simple...The biggest problem with the oysters today is pollution and the diseases like Dermo and MSX that are spawned by it. Harvest has very little to do with it.
)On the Trail of Oyster Disease in the Chesapeake Bay
I think over harvest played a big part, add pollution and diseases soon followed,just to much for oysters to overcome .Even if the water problems were fixed today it would take many many yrs to get the numbers back to where they were before they were wiped out.
 

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Are you referring to the reef that they just planted oysters on two months ago?
No. The Severn has many smaller reefs, some of which were created/replinished over a decade ago. The success of the oysters on those reefs is what caused the reef that you reference to be built, and it will hopefully be the first of many larger reefs to be built in the coming years.
 

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But just the fact that they have to plant the oysters should tell you something, they aren't growing without (As Crabby and son put it) "Humans managing the natural resources" If the oysters in the severn are doing as great as you claim, why do they need to plant them?
When was the last big commercial harvest in the severn? (I really don't know, but its probally been a long time) you would think they would be able to rebuild by now without planting, it must not be as simple as just leaving them alone.
Also, is Dermo or mx not a problem in the Severn? no oysters are dying?
 

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Humans manage natural resources!
It seems that humans have taken over and become mother nature. I watched National Geographic last night and they had a show where the topic was saving the African crocodiles. It seems they need transmitters on them now! They have been around two million years but now need man's intervention:eek2: All we have to do is leave things to the real mother nature and not screw them up. We have all the studies and tests from the bay.............leave the oysters alone and they will clean the bay......pretty simple. Man is the problem.....not the answer...............Gary
yes our sin is the problem. however it is one our jobs here on earth:

Genesis 1:26:

26Then God said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; and let them rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth."
 

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Yeah - Our 35,000 down here on the Patuxent are all confused too. They are growing like crazy.

They aren't dying because they AREN'T BEING HARVESTED!
What 35,000 are you referring to? I googled "35,000 oysters Patuxent" and nothing came up...when I googled "oysters patuxent" a lot of stuff came up, but it was mostly about how the oyster population there is low
 

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I find it amazing that some people are so misguided and arrogant to believe that nature can't exist without human "assistance."

The reality is that human's are causing the decline in nature. Remove the human influence and everything fixes itself.
 

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I find it amazing that some people are so misguided and arrogant to believe that nature can't exist without human "assistance."

The reality is that human's are causing the decline in nature. Remove the human influence and everything fixes itself.
I agree, but removing the biggest human influence of all (pollution) is a big task, especially when so many want to blow it off as a problem.
I don't think human assistance is necceasarily a bad thing. it would be great to clean up what we polluted.
 

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I am by no means an oyster expert, but weren't the diseases (MSX, dermo) that we are currently dealing with a product of human intervention? I thought these were brought about by transplanting foreign oysters. That along with over harvest have really put the Chesapeake oyster population behind the 8 ball. Read the article today in Tide about the PAX CCA oyster program. If I had shore front you bet I'd have floats in front of my place.
 

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ZAM - Yes, man, through over-population and ignorance has caused the problems and now only man through science and wisdom can clean it up. Jim
 

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Humans sure do, and have made, a lot of bad mistakes, but since when are we not also a part of nature?
This could easily turn into a lengthy philosophical discussion but the short answer is that man had little impact on nature and was fully integrated with nature for centuries. It was only when man learned to manipulate nature, when he began burning fossil fuels, the advent of the industrial revolution(s).... that we started having a huge impact on the natural world. It was no longer nature-natural.
 

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But just the fact that they have to plant the oysters should tell you something, they aren't growing without (As Crabby and son put it) "Humans managing the natural resources" If the oysters in the severn are doing as great as you claim, why do they need to plant them?
When was the last big commercial harvest in the severn? (I really don't know, but its probally been a long time) you would think they would be able to rebuild by now without planting, it must not be as simple as just leaving them alone.
Also, is Dermo or mx not a problem in the Severn? no oysters are dying?
What helps oysters in the Severn is also what necessitates man's intervention. The lower salinity keeps disease down, but also keeps reproduction way down. The historical oyster bars in the Severn developed over many thousands of years, with maybe one year in twenty being good enough to result in significant reproduction. So, unless we want to wait a few thousand more years, man must intervene to speed up the process. A few decades of no commercial involvement won't do it. The same is probably true north of the Bay Bridge. Below that, however, oysters can (and do) more rapidly reproduce. Salinity is higher, but as the Pax oysters show (the Pax oysters are in an environment that should be just as saline as the mid-Bay), disease may take some oysters but enough survive to carry on.

Even in very saline environments, if the oysters are left alone (Lynnhaven Inlet), enough will survive, then pass along their good genes, to eventually mount a recovery.

So, I think everyone here is correct to some degree. Some species, in some areas, will thrive again if simply given a break ( e.g., Redfish…or Bald Eagles). Others need a hand. Of course, giving things a hand costs money, so we ought to choose carefully where that money goes. Based on what I know (which admittedly is far less than many here), I'd say that oysters ought to be the focus of most of our species restoration. The ability of filter feeding bivalves to clean the water is awesome -- and well documented. We can create huge areas of oyster beds for a fraction of the cost of other pollution control initiatives (most of which are so eye-wateringly expensive that they'll never be done). We just need to get a number of well-intentioned folks on the same page.

Unfortunately, here's an example of why that's so hard. The Severn recently became eligible for at least a few million in federal funds. That money would allow the re-creation of the majority of oyster reefs that existed in the Severn at the beginning of the 20th century. Some estimates put that amount of oysters, assuming that the survival rate is within the normal range, at a level on par with the temporary zebra mussel spike of '04, which had a very significant impact on water clarity. Instead, that money is being split dozens of ways, none of it towards oyster restoration, assuming any goes to the Severn at all since various groups are now fighting over it. Spread across rain barrels, rooftop gardens for a few restaurants and a couple landscaping projects, the Severn will probably see no noticeable benefit.
 
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