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How's this example? Someone in the military has the same rights and freedoms of expression as every other citizen. But when they're in uniform, they are representing the US and what they say can be construed as such. Take off the uniform, and what they say is a personal opinion.
If someone wears a badge that says "John Q. Republican", he is a representative of Republicans.
If someone's signature says "Member CCA, or whatever", whatever they say reflects on that organization.
 

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[Q]junebug007 originally wrote:
"A strong argument can be made that we have too many small striped bass in the Bay and that is causing disease, starvation, and forage fish problems."
[/Q]

105,000 metric tons of bunker would feed a lot striped bass...
 

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Discussion Starter · #83 ·
[Q]Sea Gristle originally wrote:
[Q]junebug007 originally wrote:
"A strong argument can be made that we have too many small striped bass in the Bay and that is causing disease, starvation, and forage fish problems."
[/Q]

105,000 metric tons of bunker would feed a lot striped bass...
[/Q]
To *which* striped bass are you referring, exactly?
 

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Discussion Starter · #85 ·
[Q]Sea Gristle originally wrote:
the ones that aren't turned into fertilizer.
[/Q]
Clever.[grin]

As clarification, you are referring to all the striped bass that -- at some point -- swim in the Chesapeake Bay. Correct?
 

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Hey junebug,
I am curious to know what you thought of the article written by Bruce Franklin. Mainly do you think it depicts the history of menhaden. What it was in the days of John Smith to it's current status. Was it predation, disease, or man that has put the menhaden in it's current condition?
 

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[Q]junebug007 originally wrote:
As clarification, you are referring to all the striped bass that -- at some point -- swim in the Chesapeake Bay. Correct?
[/Q]

That reference comes from your original quote - I presume you know what the author is referring to. Me, I'm talking about the small, starved and diseased striped bass that are prevalent in the bay.
 

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Discussion Starter · #90 ·
[Q]manfromva originally wrote:
Hey junebug,
I am curious to know what you thought of the article written by Bruce Franklin. Mainly do you think it depicts the history of menhaden. What it was in the days of John Smith to it's current status. Was it predation, disease, or man that has put the menhaden in it's current condition?
[/Q]
The fact that the author begins his diatribe with a reference to a Simpson's episode says it all... pure comedy!

As example, referring to the menhaden as "endangered", "overfished" and "slaughtered" exemplifies the wholly erroneous and anti-human nature of the article (do sport fishermen "slaughter" striped bass, as well?). Please.

As for what "put the menhaden in it's current condition" (which is healthy, by the way), the answer is a combination of mother nature and man, as is the case with most renewable natural resources.
 

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Junebug,
So according to you after the first two paragraphs the rest of the article holds no water as a true depiction of the history of the menhaden? It seems to me that he told the whole story from the native americans to the present time.

As for menhaden being a renewable resource I agree. If less than 50% were left to spawn each year.
I manage land for landowners and to do that we grow hardwoods on lands that will allow it by leaving the best trees for seed trees (to get their genes) and to start a new stand underneath for at least ten years and then we go back and remove them to allow the younger seedlings light to grow into a future stand. And on lands that are suited for pine, we remove all the trees and replant with new loblolly tree seedlings. Actually there is more to it than that. But my point is when was the last time omega released menheden fingerlings into the bay or for that matter any man or industry. All I've ever known the reduction plants to do was pay for a commercial fishing license and take as much menhaden as were available. Even farmers plant their crops and fertilize every year.
What has the menhaden fishery done to make sure year after year that they catch enough menhaden to make money the following year? It seems to me that there use to more reduction plants when the menhaden were more plentiful and not just healthy.
 

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Discussion Starter · #92 ·
[Q]manfromva originally wrote:
Junebug,
So according to you after the first two paragraphs the rest of the article holds no water as a true depiction of the history of the menhaden? It seems to me that he told the whole story from the native americans to the present time.

As for menhaden being a renewable resource I agree. If less than 50% were left to spawn each year.
I manage land for landowners and to do that we grow hardwoods on lands that will allow it by leaving the best trees for seed trees (to get their genes) and to start a new stand underneath for at least ten years and then we go back and remove them to allow the younger seedlings light to grow into a future stand. And on lands that are suited for pine, we remove all the trees and replant with new loblolly tree seedlings. Actually there is more to it than that. But my point is when was the last time omega released menheden fingerlings into the bay or for that matter any man or industry. All I've ever known the reduction plants to do was pay for a commercial fishing license and take as much menhaden as were available. Even farmers plant their crops and fertilize every year.
What has the menhaden fishery done to make sure year after year that they catch enough menhaden to make money the following year? It seems to me that there use to more reduction plants when the menhaden were more plentiful and not just healthy.
[/Q]

Of course, forestry and fisheries share little biological similarity. Nonetheless, your proposition is likely unfeasible due to simple economics. At $0.05/lb, it ain't gonna fly. Besides, a large individual fecund female can hold 300,000+ roe. When all is said and done, science seems to indicate that it's a combination of meteorological, oceanographic and ecological conditions that determine the success of spawning and subsequent recruitment.

Looks like menhaden had a banner year in 2005. The VA recruitment survey caught about 20x the previous five-year average. MD's and PRFC's indices were significantly higher, as well, I believe.
 

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the only problem with the menhaden renewable resource plan is that most of the menhaden that are caught are age 2. And according to www.mehaden.org some menhaden reproduce at the end of 2 but most don't reproduce until age 3. I would agree with your sustainable fishery if the fishery mostly caught age 3 fish or older. The past low recruitment has to be contributed to less fish reaching spawning age due to death by man, predation, and disease.
 

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Zapata/Omega is still functioning under a 19th century Texas "oil wildcatter"/ resource exploitation mentality. "Saving some for seed" doesn't compute. That's why soybeans will win in the long run.

Corporate profit is all that counts. They're not in the reduction business for the long haul, only for as long as it remains profitable. And when it isn't, that will be the true test of how good a corporate citizen Omega is, how concerned they are for the continued employment of those Reedville citizens they trot out to plead their case.
 

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Junebug or stripper,
If your still on here... I did a search of Northumberland Co. employment and unemployment from 1990 to 2005 and just wondering if you can see what the unemployment rates do between Dec. and May every year. Isn't that during the same time omega stops and then starts fishing.
Here is the link
http://recenter.tamu.edu/data/empc/LAUCN511330.htm
 

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Sorry ....I dont read to much into there science.....just look at the bay today[sad]What are we paying these guys for ?

Shred the net's,It shure cant help a eco system already in trouble now can it.
 

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Fact & Fiction seem to be confused on this board.How is it someone that has never been in the menhaden fisherie can just one day say there are no menhaden omega caught them all ? Why is it you feel the menhaden population is in trouble?Fact ive been fishing out of reedville for 15 years and the last 6 have been the best ive ever had.Ijust hope that people who have never even seen a menhaden or menhaden boat dont read this hype and believe it to be fact.Seems a lot of anglers are having a hard time catching there prey and its easier to blame omega than consider the two thousand boats there trolling threw could be busting the schools up. THIS MUST BE THE B S BOARD[wink]
 
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[Q]SUNDAWG originally wrote:
Fact & Fiction seem to be confused on this board.How is it someone that has never been in the menhaden fisherie can just one day say there are no menhaden omega caught them all ? Why is it you feel the menhaden population is in trouble?Fact ive been fishing out of reedville for 15 years and the last 6 have been the best ive ever had.Ijust hope that people who have never even seen a menhaden or menhaden boat dont read this hype and believe it to be fact.Seems a lot of anglers are having a hard time catching there prey and its easier to blame omega than consider the two thousand boats there trolling threw could be busting the schools up. THIS MUST BE THE B S BOARD[wink]
[/Q]

Come North into Maryland waters and try to find the big schools of menhaden.

Fact is, I've been fishing 50 years in the middle bay.

Menhaden aren't here.
 

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SUNDAWG, if the last few years have been so terrific, please explain Omega's steadily declining catch, which, according to its own documents, has been in a death spiral for some time.

Oh wait...I know the answers. Menhaden are cyclical and the now decade-long trend is all part of mother nature's way. Or, in the alternative, we now have too many Stripers -- imagine what sorry shape the Bay must have been in before people came along to keep the Striper population in a healthy balance.

Hmmm...or maybe, Omega has voluntarily (and covertly) reduced its catch steadily over the years. You folks must be true stewards of the Bay to risk a shareholder lawsuit for breach of fiduciary duty just to ease pressure on the Menhaden. I take back every bad thought I've ever had about Omega. [grin]
 
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