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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
For you guys who are voting on one candidate or another based on their tax plans I would like to know exactly why that is. We have an enormous debt and deficit. The way I see it neither side will do anything to curb spending. Sooooooo where do we get the money to pay for the foreign wars, health care, the massive institution of government, and what ever else those in charge of the purse strings can dream up.

Do we just pass it on to the next generation or do we pay our fair share?

On the topic of who is taxed, I honestly think the Democrats have it exactly right. Yes, Taxing business will result in the cost being passed on to the consumer but in this somewhat free market competition should even things out a bit. Yes, it will put a burden on small business but on the other hand if the consumers get stuck with the tab business will take the hit due to the reduced spending power of the consumer. No matter how you slice it everyone takes it in the pants for the spend happy fed.

One advantage to taxing the big earners and business and letting the cost trickle down is that even those who do not pay any income taxes would end up paying their share. Kinda like a national sales tax but not as good.
 

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We have an enormous debt and deficit. The way I see it neither side will do anything to curb spending.
You are right, it seems. Obama will not be able to afford the programs he promises and Mcain won't be able to afford the tax cuts he promises. It's a pretty bleak outlook.
 

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For you guys who are voting on one candidate or another based on their tax plans I would like to know exactly why that is. We have an enormous debt and deficit. The way I see it neither side will do anything to curb spending. Sooooooo where do we get the money to pay for the foreign wars, health care, the massive institution of government, and what ever else those in charge of the purse strings can dream up.

BO has already proposed 700 billion in additional spending with no plan to pay for it. With the way the economy is slowing, the revenues will decrease..at least if you believe in supply side econ.

Do we just pass it on to the next generation or do we pay our fair share?

On the topic of who is taxed, I honestly think the Democrats have it exactly right. Yes, Taxing business will result in the cost being passed on to the consumer but in this somewhat free market competition should even things out a bit. Yes, it will put a burden on small business but on the other hand if the consumers get stuck with the tab business will take the hit due to the reduced spending power of the consumer. No matter how you slice it everyone takes it in the pants for the spend happy fed.

Oh yeah and when those consumers lose their jobs because of higher taxes how is that going to be evened out. The average consumer does not employ people. the average small business does.

One advantage to taxing the big earners and business and letting the cost trickle down is that even those who do not pay any income taxes would end up paying their share. Kinda like a national sales tax but not as good.
Which country that you know of has ever been taxed into prosperity? I don't think any of your ideas are based in reality.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Which country that you know of has ever been taxed into prosperity? I don't think any of your ideas are based in reality.
CZWOBOT, do you think that a slightly higher tax rate will cause all business to dry up? Do you honestly think that the entrepreunarial spirit will just evaporate? As long as there is a dollar to be made there will be American business. I would like for you to refute my assertions point by point if you have an issue with them rather than flatly asserting that they are wrong.
 

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CZWOBOT, do you think that a slightly higher tax rate will cause all business to dry up? Do you honestly think that the entrepreunarial spirit will just evaporate? As long as there is a dollar to be made there will be American business. I would like for you to refute my assertions point by point if you have an issue with them rather than flatly asserting that they are wrong.
That sounds good, but I think the tax rate is already way too high, which just allows more spending. As long as politicians know they can raise taxes, the spending will continue to increase. What tax rate do you consider too high? What rate should the highest earners (and largest employers) pay?

This should take care of the remaining arguments.

Laffer curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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Since the Laffer curve has never been proven to work and is a theory with little basis in reality that is a stretch.
Many if not most economist today have demonstrated that it is an unworkable theory.

From your own link:
"In 2005, the Congressional Budget Office released a paper called "Analyzing the Economic and Budgetary Effects of a 10 Percent Cut in Income Tax Rates" that casts doubt on the idea that tax cuts ultimately improve the government's fiscal situation"
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
That sounds good, but I think the tax rate is already way too high, which just allows more spending. As long as politicians know they can raise taxes, the spending will continue to increase. What tax rate do you consider too high? What rate should the highest earners (and largest employers) pay?

This should take care of the remaining arguments.

Laffer curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I agree that spending and taxes are too high. However that does not make the need for some kind of revinue go away. If there is one thing I hate more than paying for bad service, it is paying interest on the loan for that bad service.

From your link....
In economics, the Laffer curve is used to illustrate the idea that increases in the rate of taxation do not necessarily increase tax revenue. Since a 100 percent income tax will generate no revenue (as citizens will have no incentive to work), the optimal tax rate that maximizes government revenue must lie below 100 percent. Increasing taxes beyond that point would decrease tax revenue. The Laffer curve was popularized by Arthur Laffer (b. 1940) in the 1980s. However, the underlying principle has been well known since at least the time of Ibn Khaldun's Muqaddimah (1377). In his General Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money, John Maynard Keynes described how past a certain point, increasing taxation would lower revenue and vice versa.[1]

The Laffer-curve is central to supply side economics, as it provides an argument for why lowering taxation may actually increase tax revenues. Many economists have questioned the utility of the Laffer Curve in public discourse. According to Nobel prize laureate James Tobin, "[t]he 'Laffer Curve' idea that tax cuts would actually increase revenues turned out to deserve the ridicule with which sober economists had greeted it in 1981."[2]

I've highlighted a couple exerpts you might find interesting. The first would be moot because of the 'sales tax' type of effect the Obama plan would likely generate. Like I asked before, do you honestly think that the American entrepreneurial spirit would just die? Do you think that Business would simply stop because of an across the board tax hike?
 

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Of course I don't like either plan. As for spending I think McCain will spend much less than Obama. Mainly because I've read what Obama wants to spend on his website.

the plan I want to see someone get the balls to take to congress goe something like this. Now this would spur capitalism and create jobs and bring our economy back.

Forgive me....I may leave some things out....

no income tax
no business tax
no capital gains tax
no inheritance tax
no minimum wage(don't like what your making find another job. there will be plenty)
no social security witheld (this needs some attention)eventually
no medicare/medicade(this needs some attention)eventually


A national sales tax of no more than 15% ever (divided amongst fed,state,county/cities)
on all new items.example 10/3/2%
A national sales tax of no more than 5% on food items(divided amongst fed,state,county/cities)example 3/2/1%
A national sales tax on houses new or used 5% of purchase price and no more than $2000(divided amongst fed,state,county/cities)
Property taxes are set and collected by county/cities (0-no more than 1% of fair assesed value)incentive to live there
gas tax (no more than $1 per gallon) goes to states for road work only
cigarette tax (don't know who should get it or how much)
Alcohol tax (placed on before it is purchased by consumer/restaurant/bar)
local food tax(no more than 5%) remember 5% tax should have already been taxed on the food before it reached the restaurant(this is up to the county/cities)

Abolish IRS (keep 10,000 of the 110,000 employees to police the states)
the states police/collect from counties/cities
the counties/cities collect from the businesses
Big fines for cheaters and/or no compliance

simple solution and everyone pays their fare share......I'm sure I missed some things but I'm going hunting now


P.s.

Here's one more tax to only go to pay down the national debt

$.01 per share will be direct deposited into a special account for every stock bought not sold in the USA (not just the ny stock exchange but all stock exchanges) daily


The most important thing is that the govt must have a balanced/surplus budget every year


If we only vote the politicians in that will pass this...we would set the example for the whole world
 
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