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And the bad thing is they aint votin for them. If the Dems get control how do you say habla español. The repubs are like going in the frying pan, while Dems are like jumping in the fire.
In a recent borders vote in the House, all of the Md Dem Congressmen except one voted against strengthening border patrol, while all repubs voted to strengthen.
Make no mistake, the repubs have all of the leadership of a caboose, and will pay in Nov & 08 unless they start listening to conserve base..
 

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The list of Senators who voted against the fence:

Akaka (D-HI)
Bingaman (D-NM)
Cantwell (D-WA)
Dodd (D-CT)
Durbin (D-IL)
Feingold (D-WI)
Inouye (D-HI)
Jeffords (I-VT)
Kennedy (D-MA)
Lautenberg (D-NJ)
Lieberman (D-CT)
Menendez (D-NJ)
Murray (D-WA)
Obama (D-IL)
Reed (D-RI)
Sarbanes (D-MD)

You have to give Bingaman credit for courage, I guess. The Senators next closest to the border who voted against the fence are from Washington and Illinois.
 

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So what's your proposal Hippie Joe. You want to let 'em, or keep 'em out. Guest workers or citizenship. Sh!t or get off the pot.
 

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So now the toatl is 20 mil last week it was 11mil they must realy be moving fast to get here. I have not heard one thing about given them the right to vote. This is a problem that most everyone has a little guilt in. We as Americans have allowed them to work in our yards, homes, golf courses etc. We could have pushed the issue but why when we where benefiting from their work. Business are guilty for hiring them and the goverment both state and federal are guilty for allowing this to go on for the past 30 years. I just don't see how we can round up and send home 11 million people that we have allowed to come here. We must first shut down the borders and then strenghthen the laws and add very steep penalties for hiring illegals. We also need to cut of any and all benifits that any illegal is receiving. The only two things that we allow for a short time is school for the children (English Only) and medecal for emegency only. These few things would drive alot back home. Then we come up with a way to deal with the ones still in the country.
 

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As solidly "right" as I am, I think my party needs a wake-up call. Maybe if we lost the house and senate, they would remember in the future not to abdandon their base. I mean come one, what are they thinking even considering a plan that could potentially allow 193 Mil. over 20 or 30 years. I an earlier post is right, those would be dems, not pubs.

As Nepoleon would say, "Idiots!"
 

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Fritz, this is one issue I am not in a rush to decide, so I guess I'll tie up the pot awhile longer. But let me ask--you really think a fence will work?

also, this is pretty handy as a political diversion--it doesn't address the problem of sourcing US jobs overseas at all; all of a sudden, now that most manufacturing has gone overseas, Americans are waking up to the future of landscaping, and finding that there now is plenty of labor.

Cartman--that was the best movie I've seen in the last few years. That goes on my list with Big Lebowski, Apocalypse Now, Goodfellas, as one that I will watch and watch again.
 

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[Q]Hippie Joe originally wrote:
Fritz, this is one issue I am not in a rush to decide, so I guess I'll tie up the pot awhile longer. But let me ask--you really think a fence will work? [/q]

A fence is only part of a total answer, of course. By making it harder for people to cross in areas where you can't (or aren't willing) to cover with people, you discourage some and divert some to areas you can or will cover. Without added enforcement, a fence is not a solution. There are fences now, in places, and they help (I saw the fence in Tijuana a few years ago, and there were hundreds waiting behind it to go over at night - without the fence they'd go all day too). But it is curious that democrats have been trying desparetly to get to the right of Bush on the immigration issue (it's cheap, after all when you don't actually have to do anything), but the only serious opposition to border enforcement comes only from democrats.

[q]also, this is pretty handy as a political diversion--it doesn't address the problem of sourcing US jobs overseas at all; all of a sudden, now that most manufacturing has gone overseas, Americans are waking up to the future of landscaping, and finding that there now is plenty of labor.[/Q]

One thing the immigration "crisis" should demonstrate is that we don't have a jobs problem in the US. We have more employed illegals than we have unemployed Americans. We have lots of jobs; we have an expectations proplem. American workers expect certain jobs to pay more than employers expect to pay. Both can't be right.
 

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"One thing the immigration "crisis" should demonstrate is that we don't have a jobs problem in the US. We have more employed illegals than we have unemployed Americans. We have lots of jobs; we have an expectations proplem. American workers expect certain jobs to pay more than employers expect to pay. Both can't be right."

Yes. The "employers expect to pay" is the key part. Reduce the supply of workers by eliminating illegal immigration, and the price of labor goes up. At some point, it rises to match American worker expectations.
 

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It's not wages. It's benefits, including unemployment, medical coverage, paid time off, etc. that employers don't have to pay illegals. Those that think that the typical hourly wage of an illegal immigrant is lower than a legal worker don't really know what they're talking about.
 

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[Q]Hippie Joe originally wrote:
Fritz, this is one issue I am not in a rush to decide, so I guess I'll tie up the pot awhile longer. But let me ask--you really think a fence will work?

also, this is pretty handy as a political diversion--it doesn't address the problem of sourcing US jobs overseas at all; all of a sudden, now that most manufacturing has gone overseas, Americans are waking up to the future of landscaping, and finding that there now is plenty of labor.

Cartman--that was the best movie I've seen in the last few years. That goes on my list with Big Lebowski, Apocalypse Now, Goodfellas, as one that I will watch and watch again.

[/Q]Americans have been out sourcing jobs long before corporations started moving overseas. We the consumers started buying products from overseas years ago and have forced corporations to move overseas so they can compete. I'm not saying Corp's are totaly innocent but if we as consumers rejected these overseas products corporations would not have to compete against the low wages. Walmart is a big factor in this. Remember when people working for Sears and JcPenny's back in the1970's had good paying full time jobs with good benifits? They had a career and now Sears and JcPennys hire mainly part time employees with little to no beenifits. The reason for the change was so they could compete with stores like WalMart. I only listed Sears & JcPennys because they are the two biggest there are a whole lot more like this. You also said their is plenty of labor left in America but businesses are have a hard time keeping and finding good employee's. I have several customers who own small businesses and finding and keeping employees is their toughest job. I'm not talking about high skilled jobs but ones if the person will show up everyday do their job they can make between 25,000 to 45,000 a year with bennifits. I'm just amazed when I talk to them the difficulties they have with finding good employees that are willing to work.
 

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And yet we still have more people who come in from abroad for jobs than we have unemployed Americans. It just boggles the mind that people can whine about the number and quality of jobs.
 

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people have certain expectations, partly created by the cultural fantasies that they are bombarded with, the most effective bombardment being the TV, where all out consumption of everything is protrayed as normal life for all. when the reality is that you get sick, you can't pay the doctor, you can't put gas in the truck and go to Appleby's, etc., people get upset, whine, yell, etc. And then of course the crocodile tears of the politicians.
 

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[Q]stevesea originally wrote:
ya know what kills me about mericans

i read in some money magizine that only 25% have a 401k or something similiar
[/Q]How true and they will be the first to complain that they can't retire or that they have a small fixed income to live on. Thats one reason why politicians won't let people have control over their SS.They would lose control over the money and thus the people.
 
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