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I agree in principle, BB, but the Christian Conservatives won't be so obvious about it. Look for them to shoot him down for other reasons...any reason will suffice.
 

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I don't think he'll get as much flack from the right as he does
when the media decides to run made for TV movies and documentaries about Morman nut jobs.

Bert
 

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[Q]CSLUG originally wrote:
Bob thinks a GOP Presidential candidate is a moron?
[/Q]"Moron" is much nicer than the things he called John McCain, as I recall.[smile]
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
[Q]CSLUG originally wrote:
Bob thinks a GOP Presidential candidate is a moron?
[/Q]"Moron" is much nicer than the things he called John McCain, as I recall.[smile]
[/Q]

Refresh my memory - - - what did I cal Mc Cain ? ? ?

The Manchurian Candidate ? ? ?

Moderate ( Read Liberal )? ? ?

The fact is that most Republicans do not trust Mc Cain, and though he might be able to win the General, he will never win the nomination.

Romney might make pretty good President - - - if you want a socialist Republican.

And for the record I did not call him anything - - - I said get used to hearing it - - - - if he becomes a front runner.

If being a Mormon, or a Jew were not defacto disqualifiers for the office of President, Leiberman, or Orin Hatch would be in office today.

It took the country many many years to accept a Catholic President, I suspect, a Mormon or Jew have a few decades to wait.

I think it will be the left wing fundamentalists who will be out in front bashing Romney.

Best wishes
BB
 

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Relax, BB. I didn't say you trashed Romney. And yes, those are among your descriptions of McCain, as I recall. Didn't you also say he sucked as a pilot?[smile]
Personally, I have no beef with Mormons and respect many of their beliefs. Who really dislikes Mormons is Evangelical Christians, a big part of the GOP base. As for Orrin Hatch, he only had to win a State election. And look at which state.[smile]
 

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What's so wrong with McCain? He's obviously the most electable Republican. He seems to be a great candidate with a level head on his shoulders. I think some of his moderate views scare the ultra right, but that's a good thing. I'll vote for him. I'd vote for Joe Lieberman, as well. So what if he's a Jew or he's a Democrat?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
Relax, BB. I didn't say you trashed Romney. And yes, those are among your descriptions of McCain, as I recall. Didn't you also say he sucked as a pilot?[smile]
Personally, I have no beef with Mormons and respect many of their beliefs. Who really dislikes Mormons is Evangelical Christians, a big part of the GOP base. As for Orrin Hatch, he only had to win a State election. And look at which state.[smile]
[/Q]

If you recall Hatch briefly considered a Presedential bid, and he was my candidate going into the primaries all those years ago.

As to Mc Cain's flying ability - - - I recall reading that he would have washed out of pilot training if his Father had not been an Admiral. I also recall that he crashed four airplanes two of which he ran out of fuel. I also believe we was shot down after only a very few missions.

But of course if being a good pilot qualified (or bad disqualified)you to be President you would all be in love with GWB [grin] [grin] [grin].

The bottom line is that if you liked the current "Frat Boy" on Pennsylvania Avenue - - - be sure to jump on the Mc Cain bandwagon.

You are a Virginian - - - what do you think of George Allen ? ? ?

Best Wishes
BB
 

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Its the rightwing base that votes in the primaries, why do you think McCain lost to the rightwings Idiot Son in the 2000 primaries?

Of course McCain is taking heavily right as of late so he may win the nomination but lose the election
 

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[Q]Bay bob originally wrote:
I recall reading that he would have washed out of pilot training if his Father had not been an Admiral.

- - what do you think of George Allen ? ? ?

[/Q]
If his father hadn't been an awesome Redskins coach, he would have washed out of EVERYthing.[smile]
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
[Q]Capt. Jim Brincefield originally wrote:
What's so wrong with McCain? He's obviously the most electable Republican. He seems to be a great candidate with a level head on his shoulders. I think some of his moderate views scare the ultra right, but that's a good thing. I'll vote for him. I'd vote for Joe Lieberman, as well. So what if he's a Jew or he's a Democrat?
[/Q]

What is so wrong with Mc Cain ?

Couple of things - - - he has a nasty temper.

He has a reputation for engaging in inappropriate relationships with the wives of men under his command.

He was an Admirals son - - - born with a silver anchor in his mouth !

None of which would prevent me from voting for him.

But here is the real problem - - - the press loves Mc Cain - - - only so long as they can worship him as a counter force to Bush.

Once a leading Dem takes the nomination, the press will turn on McCain so fast you will think he was a pork chop tossed into a pack of hungry dogs.

They will devour him - - - and because he has been treated with kid gloves, and tossed so many softballs he will not be able to adjust to the turned tide. I predict he will "go off" like Dean, and leave us high and dry.

I am not sure who I like yet, but George Allen seems pretty reasonable - - - I am hoping Bush appoints a leading Pub to replace Cheney, cause I can't think of an electable Dem that I could support. Leiberman being unelectable.

BW
BB
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
[Q]Bay bob originally wrote:
I recall reading that he would have washed out of pilot training if his Father had not been an Admiral.

- - what do you think of George Allen ? ? ?

[/Q]
If his father hadn't been an awesome Redskins coach, he would have washed out of EVERYthing.[smile]
[/Q]

I have to admit that thought crossed my mind ! ! !

Can't seem to get away from Frat Boys !
 

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[Q]Bay bob originally wrote:
cause I can't think of an electable Dem that I could support.
[/Q]
It's a little early for that prediction. At this point in the cycle, who had heard of Clinton, Carter or even GWB, for that matter? See a pattern there? Look for emerging Governors.
 

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[q] I am hoping Bush appoints a leading Pub to replace Cheney, [/q]

Because if theres one thing this country is for is W's hand picked succesor...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Here is the Pub position on Mc Cain - - - I ain't sure I buy it, but this is their story and they are sticking to it.

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The Conservative Case Against John McCain In 2008

There is no Republican up on Capitol Hill more disliked by his own GOP brethren than John McCain. That's why, despite the size of his fan club in the mainstream media, McCain seems rather unlikely to capture the party's nomination for President in 2008.

Here's a short, but sweet primer that may help explain why so many conservatives believe John McCain would be a very poor choice as the Republican nominee in 2008.

The Age Issue

John McCain will be 72 years old in 2008, which will make him 3 years older than Ronald Reagan was when he became the oldest man to ever be inaugurated as president back in 1981. In the Senate, where doddering fossils like Strom Thurmond and Robert Byrd can be elected over and over, McCain looks like a spring chicken in comparison. But, Reagan's age turned out to be a campaign issue and McCain, who would be 80 years old at the end of his 2nd term, would certainly have a lot of people questioning --with good reason -- whether he's up to the job. Were McCain to be the nominee, his age could be the deciding factor that puts a Democrat in office.

How Electable Is McCain Really?

The mainstream media loves John McCain and they regularly write fawning articles referring to him as a "maverick" and a "straight-talker." Because of this, McCain polls well among Democrats and Independents.

However, the reason McCain is so well liked by the media is because they're liberals and they love it when he trashes other Republicans. But, what would happen if John McCain actually became the Republican nominee? The same members of the mainstream media who gush over him today would turn on him in a Minnesota minute and once his great press ended, his poll numbers with Independents and Democrats would start to drop precipitously.

Moreover, it's no big secret that McCain is roundly despised by more than a few conservatives. The thinking there usually goes, "Well, what are they going to do, vote for Hillary?" No, they won't, "vote for Hillary," but will they contribute money to McCain, volunteer for his campaign, or defend him from attacks made by Democrats or the press? No, they won't.

More importantly, they may throw their votes away by voting Libertarian or for the Constitution Party in 2008. Given that the outcome of three of the last four elections may have been decided by these sorts of protest votes (for Perot in '92 and '96 and Nader in 2000), this is not an issue that should be taken lightly.

What's Wrong With Actually Having A Loyal Republican As The Republican Nominee?

One of the most galling things about the idea of having John McCain as the Republican nominee in 2008 is that whether he's a loyal Republican or not is a question that can't truly be answered. Back in 2001, there were rumors that McCain might, depending on how the election turned out, switch parties in order to help the Democrats retain the Senate. In 2002, there were rumors that McCain was considering switching parties and running for President as a Democrat. In 2004, "on several occasions," McCain talked with John Kerry about becoming his vice-president. Obviously McCain hasn't pulled a Jim Jeffords yet, but you have to wonder about where he really stands.

How Can You Be Pro-Life And Pro-Roe v. Wade At The Same Time?

Overall, John McCain does have a fairly solid pro-life voting record (The glaring exception is that he has gone off the reservation on embryonic stem cell research). However, McCain has specifically said, on more than one occasion, back in August of 1999, that he opposes overturning Roe v. Wade:

"I'd love to see a point where (Roe v. Wade) is irrelevant, and could be repealed because abortion is no longer necessary. But certainly in the short term, or even-the long-term, I would not support repeal of Roe v. Wade, which would then force X number of women in America to [undergo] illegal and dangerous operations."

"I would not seek to overturn Roe v. Wade tomorrow, because doing so would endanger the lives of women."

Has McCain also said he wants to repeal Roe v. Wade on many occasions? Yes. But, how can pro-lifers trust a man who has flip-flopped like John Kerry on Roe v. Wade to appoint the Supreme Court Justices who may end up deciding the issue? Simply put, we can't.

Kyoto By Any Other Name Would Still Smell As Rotten

John McCain has proposed a radical bill, the McCain-Lieberman Stewardship Act, that is not all that different from the Kyoto Protocol. McCain's bill would do cataclysmic damage to our economy. In the name of cutting greenhouse gas emissions by an insignificant percentage, that not even the biggest proponents of Kyoto believe would have a significant impact on the weather, here's the damage John McCain would be willing to do to our economy (from an article by Marlo Lewis in National Review):

"Proponents will undoubtedly argue, as they did last fall, that we need not worry about the bill's economic impact because Phase I (of McCain's bill) is just a "modest" first step in addressing global climate change. A recent Energy Information Administration (EIA) analysis suggests otherwise. According to EIA, Phase I would increase: gasoline prices by 9 percent in 2010 and 19 percent in 2025; natural-gas prices in the industrial and electric-power sectors by 21 percent in 2010 and 58 percent in 2025; and electricity prices by 35 percent in 2025."

Would you support a Republican candidate for President who pledged to sign America on to Kyoto Protocol? If not, then why support John McCain, who wants to do almost the same thing under a different name?

McCain Vs. The Bush Tax Cuts

Most conservatives believe the biggest domestic success of George Bush's first term were his tax cuts. John McCain voted against them, more than once, before finally flip-flopping and voting for them this year. Enough said.

McCain May Not Like Bush's Tax Cuts, But He Loves Illegal Immigration

McCain has teamed up with Ted Kennedy to propose a bill that rewards illegal aliens by allowing them to stay in the US permanently after they pay a modest fine, brings in hundreds of thousands of new guest workers as well, and does almost nothing to enforce immigration law or prevent new illegal aliens from entering the country. In other words, if you love George Bush's illegal immigration policy, John McCain is offering more of the same. On the other hand, if you believe we need to clamp down on illegal immigration, John McCain is not a candidate you should support.

The Gang-Of-14 Disaster

Just as Republicans in Congress were about to step in and put an end to the Democratic filibusters of judges once and for all, John McCain and the rest of the "Gang-Of-14" stepped in with a deal that kept the filibuster alive. This got John McCain and the other participants in the deal lots of favorable press, but the GOP paid a real price so that the "Maverick" could be in the spotlight again. Several GOP judges were thrown over the side and have, as of yet, never been allowed to get a vote.

Furthermore, the Gang-of-14 deal explicitly no long applies after the 2006 elections occur. So, if the Democrats gain seats in the Senate and decide to start filibustering again, it's entirely possible that this time, the GOP won't be able to muster the votes to stop them. That means that if a liberal Supreme Court Justice steps down during the last two years of Bush's term, because of John McCain and Company, it may not be possible to replace them with another Alito or Roberts. That's the price the party may have to pay so that John McCain can continue to be the New York Times' favorite Republican.

The McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Debacle

John McCain's signature piece of legislation is the McCain-Feingold Campaign Finance Reform Bill, which was one of the worst pieces of legislation to make it through Congress in the last decade. The idea behind this nightmare, which was a failure on every level, was that it was going to, "take the money out of politics." Well, not only did McCain-Feingold fail to, "take the money out of politics," more money was spent than ever before during the 2004 elections. Moreover, the bill unconstitutionally curbed free speech, protected incumbents, gave a fund raising edge to the Democrats, and opened up the door to regulating bloggers. If McCain says that he'll do for America what he did for campaign finance reform, it should be taken as a threat.

Conclusion

That should give you a pretty good idea of what some of McCain's biggest flaws are, but what you've seen so far is by no means a comprehensive list. Keep in mind that McCain opposed Bush's attempt to protect marriage by enshrining it in the Constitution, committed adultery in his first marriage, attacked the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, endangered the lives of all Americans by handcuffing our military interrogators, had a meltdown over a boxing commission...you can go on and on like this.

The long and short of it is that John McCain is a deeply flawed candidate who's unlikely to capture the Republican nomination, unlikely to win the presidency, and is unlikely to be a good President even if he somehow makes it to the White House.

John Hawkins

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Repy to FO,

Yeah Bush is unpopular at the moment - - - but that could change at any time. The Pubs would be smart if they convinced Bush to appoint an "Anti- Bush" as Vice President.

Someone who respectfully disagrees with Bush on some key issues, but who supports him as the "boss".

Do not discount the advantages of being the encumbant, and the experience of being Vice President when it comes to the electorate. How else can you explain GHWB ? ? ?

Best Wishes
BB
 
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