[Stolen_Deals]

Yes some time you have to repeat yourself 3 or 4 times to get your point across but the real trick is being consistent at all times. I agree that water quality is a very significant part of the overall equations to what is impacting the bay and it' tributaries but the subject on this thread is Omega and their impact or lack there of on the Menhaden population in this area.

I have no doubt that other variables adversely effect the bay but this in itself does not remove the concern regarding Omega and their practices.

I attended the PRFC/ASMFC public hearing this evening in Colonial Beach where more than 70 people representing recreational fisherman, charter boat Captain's, Commercial Gill and Pound Netters, CCA MD, CCA VA, Commercial Guides, one lady from William and Mary College who conducted studies on Menhaden, Green Peace, ASMFC,NMC, Fredrickburg Fly Fishing Club, Saltwater Sportsman Club, Watermans Association, two locals from Northumberland and others. 22 individuals from this group gave public statements regarding the proposal to place A "CAP" on the Omega Catch over the next 2 years. Of the 22 speakers from the organizations mentioned above only three opposed the Cap and most asked for a complete moratorium rather than a cap (which will not happen). One Pound Netter stated "It goes against my grain to take sides against a commercial fishing interest but this needs to stop".

Tonight is the first time I have ever seen recreational and commercial people almost unanimously agree on any issues that effect each other. Either they are all wrong or some problem does exist.

If anyone is interested I can provide a more detailed dump and if not OK by me.

Jim (Instigator)

 

[jrocket567]

I'm usually just a fly on the wall during these conversations, but ill have to jump in on this one:
First off, there is not only one way to fix the bay; if you ask a million people, you will get a million and one different answers;
the problems that the bay is having is from every source possible:
run off from a) farms b) sewage treatment plants c) all of the fertilizer that you put on your yards d) the concrete jungle filled with too many chemicals and **** to begin to count

depletion of many species within the bay-- oysters, clams, crabs, menhaden, trout, big bluefish, and i could keep going for days

over population of the land-- too much sprawl- leads back to the increase pollution and run off

to fix the bay, every single person in the watershed (which includes VA,MD,PA,NY, and DE) must do his/her part; reduce runoff, throw back those extra fish; don't litter or pollute the waterways;

One of the most informative books that I have read in a long time is Turning the Tide: Saving the Chesapeake Bay, by Tom Horton by which explains in detail all of the problems that the bay is having, and even suggests many improvements that can be made; the book is unbiased, and addresses the bay and its state on a scientific level. Everybody interested and concerned with the health of the bay should read this book- then you will understand all sides of the bay's problems, and how its not JUST Omega, or not JUST the pollution, or not JUST the disease in the oysters-- the bay is a inextricably linked ecosystem; when one thing declines, the rest of the ecosystem is knocked out of whack

Yes the menhaden are a key role, and IMHO, a limit of some sort must be placed on them, or Omega will fish themselves out of business. But you can not forget everything else that is needed to help cure the bay. I am from VA, and have been here all of my life, but you cannot bash MD on anything about the bay; they have been the leaders in cleaning up the bay; PA and VA have been draggin their feet and slacking up.

If you really wanted to make a big difference in the bay, support something like the flush tax; yes it will cost you a measly $100 a year (thats no where close to a tank of gas in your boat, or that new rod/reel combo you've been eying at Green Top), but is that worth having a cleaner bay for your children and grandchildren to enjoy just like you have? This money will go towards building and maintaining better sewage treatment facilities, preventing millions of pounds of excess nitrogen, phosphorous, and other pollutants from entering the bay-- hey, if those extra couple million pounds of nitrogen are cut out, maybe the dead zones will stop naturally (no nitrogen=no algae= no dead zone), and the current menhaden population will be able to keep up with it, with just a moderate restriction on the reduction fleet.

Every Little Bit Helps; keep doing your part, maybe one day it will pay off
JP
"KwikRelease"

 

[Sea King]

In my opinion there is no comparison between the effect pollution has on the ecosystem and the impact Omega is having on the health of the bay.

The pollution issue is the 800 lb Gorilla. Omega's fishing, I acknowledge is a problem, but is yet a small fly on the Gorilla's back. In no way shape or form are these issues equal in size or complexity. If you want to be an activist for the bay and all of the individual species residing in it, your energy would be better spent on reducing pollution.

 

[captaingeorge]

[Q]Sea King originally wrote:
If you want to be an activist for the bay and all of the individual species residing in it, your energy would be better spent on reducing pollution.
[/Q]Unless, of course, one is really less concerned about the bay and mostly concerned with catching rockfish.[smile]

 

[Sea King]

[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
[Q]Sea King originally wrote:
If you want to be an activist for the bay and all of the individual species residing in it, your energy would be better spent on reducing pollution.
[/Q]Unless, of course, one is really less concerned about the bay and mostly concerned with catching rockfish.[smile]
[/Q]
Capt, I am not sure there has been a better year for catching rock than '05, not in my lifetime. Catchemup! [wink]

 

[captaingeorge]

I also think the rockfishing is fine and that the excessive attention on the bunker is good energy misspent.

 

[Sea King]

[Q]captaingeorge originally wrote:
I also think the rockfishing is fine and that the excessive attention on the bunker is good energy misspent.
[/Q]

Amen brother! Good luck fishing!

 

[Stolen_Deals]

Sea King...............seems like you taking this a bit personal or maybe your just getting worn out by all the long winded dialog on this subject even though for some reason you persist in continuing to read and reply. Remember everyone has an opinon so be carefull that you don't take it too personal and than make it personal.

I guess I am reacting to your assertion that if one is concerned about the state of the Mendhaden in the bay that this in turn labels me as an "activist"............Please! You clearly don't know me so lets not make any unfounded judgements based on my stand on Omega.

Are you correct about the pollution and water quality issues..............................of course you are and I don't hear anyone denying that furthermore unless I missed it I don't know of any activities your involved with that focus on solving them and if I am incorrect please enligthen me. And if Omega represents only 10% or 20% of the overall problem and that problem can be dealt with in a timely and efficient manner why is this not consider a worth cause.

Possibly Captain George is insinuating that I have a greater concern for catching Rock Fish than the state of the bay and that may not be entirely false but clearly not accurate. Truth be know, of all the problems facing the bay I personally feel that the issue with Omega offers the only near term positive impact that I can make without giving up my job and becoming a full time activist for lack of better words.

Everyone has a right to their opinon but you can't convince me that fishing for Rock Fish is at a all time high and that last year was the best in recent history. If that is true than either your history or your memory is very short. I will agree that this spring was the best I have seen in 4-5 years but I still believe that is attributed to ideal weather conditions rather than a healthy bay and a healty Menhaden pupulation.

Jim (Instigator)

 

[captaingeorge]

[Q]Stolen_Deals originally wrote:
Possibly Captain George is insinuating that I have a greater concern for catching Rock Fish than the state of the bay
[/Q]Talk about taking things personally.[smile]
In fact, I WAS insinuating that but it wasn't directed at you, but at an activist conservation organization which will go unnamed.[smile]

 

[Sea King]

JIm,
I do think that you are taking this personally. Please check your b-mail.
PD

 

[chumgunner]

This post has lasted way too long.

I work for a semiconductor manufacturer.
No, they do not pollute the bay, in any way that I'm aware.
But, they gotta dump thier **** , & there is a lot of it, somewhere.

Is Omega any worse than my employer?
doubt it, by a long shot
They just don't ****** where they eat.

Omega puts cash in locals pockets
It's a job, that if not done here, will be carried out somewhere else

Mankind consumes then dumps thier waste.
Omega is simpley the consumption portion of the chain.
Monitor & regulate
Put them out of business & something worse will fill thier shoes.
Y'all can bet on that!

 

[captaingeorge]

[Q]chumgunner originally wrote:
This post has lasted way too long.
[/Q]Agreed.

 

[Stolen_Deals]

Actually Sea King, I am not taking this personal.............you should know us activists have pretty thick skin. I have tried two times to answer your B-mail but each time it has bombed on me. However I will try again first chance I get. Right now it is Miller time and I have my priorities.

Jim (Instigator)

 

[crazymofo]

THIS WAS A FALSE POST, NOT ALL OF THE INFORMATION WAS TRUE
I would like to thank all of those individuals who replied to my thread. I would first like to say that this was a personal experiment that i wanted to conduct to see how much of an emotional issue this menhadden issue is, and to see how people would react and see what tactics they would use to argue with or against me. For this reason, I had to use a few major FALSE facts to try to give the piece credibility so that people would think long and hard about the data, and so that they would not blow the piece off. I realize now after reading many of the replies that i should have never tried the response experiment, but I was extremely interested, and i wanted to conduct it on a public message board where the subjects were interested in fishing and knew the issue. The facts that were not true include: the citation of the piece, being a graduate student at VIMS, a "secret" chesapeake bay menhadden analysis, and some other minor items. I wanted to see how people would react and let them shine light on other issues, so that I could think and study outside of the box. I am extremely interested in the menhadden issue, but i am even more interested in the sociological issues. Thanks for all of the replies, and I sincerely hope that I did not offend anyone, for that certainly was not my intention.

 

[rocksandblues]

What the _____ !!!!!!!

[sad][sad][sad][sad][sad][sad]

 

[Purdue1]

[shy]

 

[Matt]

I'm glad I went to page 8 first

 

[capt. dave]

So the whole thing was just to p1$$ everybody off. Well you did a good job of it you mofo. I doubt that your paper will be of any value to society at large.

 

[Steve00]

Crazymofo--If you are doing an academic paper you may have gotten some interesting sociological insight--but you are certainly ethically challenged! Does the word "integrity" mean anything these days in academia?? I know when I was in grad school it did.

 

[captaingeorge]

del