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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I’ve been fly fishing in saltwater (stripers, Blues, sea trout, etc.), for well over 45 years with single handle rods from 7 to 10 weight. Presently, I decided to try 2 handed overhead rods to achieve more distance only when needed. I just bought the new 11 foot, 8 weight, Deer Creek TFO 2 handed rod. (Mfg Recommendations - 400-600 gr. or 7-10 weight lines)
Three Questions-
a) Suggest a manufacturer’s line for maximum casting distance in 3’ deep flats, (light winds), an Intermediate line.
b) Suggest another manufacturer’s line for fly fishing from a jetty into 25’ of water depth, (light winds), a medium sinking line.
c) Finally, suggest a line for fishing the heavy surf, (moderate winds), probably medium sink line.
I assume that fly lines would either be heads with looped running lines, integrated line heads, or Weight Forward lines.
A tough question, but would really appreciate recommendations from experienced 2 handed overhead anglers. Much thanks!
 

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I looked in my cabelas 2008 fly fishing catalog and didn't see the 11' 8wt Deer Creek Modle. All the Deer Creek rods were two handed 12' and above. I think that would be an awesome rod for a lot of situations. Whether it be carp fishing in a canal with low lying vegetation to surf casting the Atlantic to throwing a double spey on some narrow steelhead rivers like we have out east.

As for lines... hopefully someone else will chime in. I doubt a traditional 120' spey line will be good, maybe an over weighted double taper or a heavier wt forward floater. There are just so many lines and rods now a days, how do you possibly pick the perfect line. You'll end up spending twice as much as the rod on several different lines before you get it right.

Good luck and let us know how it handles.
 

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Is this Don from SFOD?

Anyway, I have the old TFO two hander and recently upgraded to the Gloomis skagit rod.

They are lethal in the ocean. There is no comparison between the two. The tfo blew up in my hands 2 years ago and pretty much ended my day ....during good fishing. I've never sent it in... Be careful about corrosion on the guide feet too. It'll happen quick with tfo's in the ocean.
I'm on the loomis staff now so I got this rod... glx version

Welcome to G.Loomis

With these rods under the conditions you are dealing with... you can use a variety of lines. I've found that the biggest advantage is line management not distance. We drift flies.. no casting and stripping in.. so you have to keep contact with your fly at all times. I can drift flies on those flats you are talking about... for what seems like a mile. I can cover 3x the water that a person using a normal fly rod can. You don't miss many strikes either..

Last year in june.... please don't comment on location if you think you know where I was... no spot burning. ;-)



That day I landed close to twenty on the skagit.. I had another on that was bigger than the one in the image and lost him at my feet..
If you ever want to try the loomis let me know. It makes a huge difference in the areas you fish.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
As mentioned, I am new to this type of casting, & I thank you all for replies on line suggestions. Just a bit of info- I received my rod recently, and since I had a 600 gr. Airflo Depth Finder line, I tried to cast it being a novice to the techniques. With several consecutive casts (no false), I suprisingly casted the 90 ' line + leader, and significantly into the backing with little effort. My conclusion: - With some more experience, and possibly using other lines, this new means of casting has met my objectives. The rod is not fast action, but seems to deliver line appropriately. Next is learning how to catch, retrieve and land fish with this long rod.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Two Handed Overhead fly rods

This was cast on a lawn without a fly, just a leader & into light wind. Guess It matters much on the water with some water loading, BUT conditions were not plausible at the time. Still, I was amazed at the distance.
 

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two handed rods

Where is everyone located?
I would like to hook up with you'll sometime and do some fishing and I am still in the learning process of the spey rod.
I use to have a tfo 14 ft 9 wt, used it very little. Sold it then ended up buying me another right before christmas. The same model. I purchased me the multi tiped line.
I have used mine for shad fishing on the Rappahanock.
Here recently done some striper fishing with it.

This was my one keeper.
Check out this site for alot of spey info.
Speypages

Rio also has a site that will help you pic the line for your rod.
http://www.rioproducts.com/photos/file/2009%20Spey%20line%20recs.pdf

Hope this helps and maybe we can get together sometime and sling some lines.

Dan
Williamsburg VA
 

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Hi Don, you and I have been waving fly rods about the same length of time so take my advice as you will. First expect NO REAL GAIN in distance with an 11'er ( I hate to have to be the one to say this to ya). I have been swinging 2handers in the salt since the early 90's when the number of saltwater TH fly rodders nationally were less than 5 that we were aware of. Don, you will be able to dbl haul your 9'ers just as far with maybe a bit less effort on the TH'er. The real 2handed advantage on line speed starts around 13' and gets better and better the longer you go in rod length. On the salt longer, faster, and high line weights is the way to go! There is no reason to fish light fly lines when using a 2hander in the salt for our fish; they aren't line shy where we fish.

As far as line suggestions to cover the 3 situations I would suggest a shooting head system with Airflo 35' heads and Airflo 30lb shooting lines in either intermediate or floating.

When using your rod shorten up your casting stroke, push and pull with both hands while your arms follow a normal casting stroke, and focus on a very abrupt stop at both backcast and forward cast. This will get your line speed.

Don, you may want to ask Bill Micheline in you club for help as well as I know he has been at it for awhile. Bill and I have oddly never met over the years but from talking with him on forums I am sure he is knowledgable at surf fishing 2handers. If you see an older guy waving really long 2handers in your waters down there say hello for it will most likely be me especially at night. You'll hear the line hissing before you'll see me ;)

Hope I was of some help but line selection is pretty much like SH head systems. Full length lines I opt for Airflo +40 Beach lines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Jim: I really appreciate your response, & recommendation of lines. But I looked into my rod purchase very carefully, & contacted several "pros" in the field discussing my objectives. I also contacted the designer with many questions about this rod and also evaluated his comments. The 11" rod suits my objectives nicely & after trial casting several lines, with EASE, I was extremly satisfied with results. Just for a referance, I was a Design Engineer for 40 years until retirement,- my thoughts are always analytical due to my profession.

In the Spring, when my fly fishing starts again, I will contact you again with further results. Again, thanks for your opinions. Don
 

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Don, I am truthfully very glad your are happy with your selection but, respectfully, as an engineer think of this; as a casting tool (which is why we go to 2handed rods: for more line speed or further the distance) which generates greater tip speed a 11' rod or a 16' rod when moving your casting hands exactly the same distance and speed through a casting stroke? Tip speed directly relates to line speed and perceived physical effort is essentially the same when supported by two hands. Like comparing using a putter and a 1 iron off the tee except the 16' rod has a 5' length advantage over the 11'er. To verify conclusions try this too, tape your 11'er to a broom handle and cast it and let me know what you experience by adding this length to the system.

I know, and have talked to, both the owner of TFO and Jay Horton who initially helped guide TFO, thru their Pro Staff program, in developing their line of two handed rods. This Jay also had some input with T&T's 12x12 so one can see his trend is towards short TH rods as does Bob Meiser (considered the father of switch rods) on the West Coast (also has TFO input). I am fully aware of their take on this as well as our two most well known flycasting east coast "pros" located in MD and PA (the one MD "pro" once promoted rods no shorter than 14' until he was compromised and the PA "pro" took years to finally state their advantages and bad mouthed them frequently in public till finally deciding how great they are then promoted them to the point of even teaching others to cast them for cash when he had only a month of experience with them himself). You have an active club member with more time with a 2handed rod on Atlantic Coastal waters than 4 of these "pro's" put together, I am sure of, maybe all 5. To me experience carries far more weight than titles when I need an answer to a question. As an engineer, when you were stumped didn't you go out and inquire with those who had to work with it everyday for answers? They may not have the your expertise to design it but they know what works and what would make it better, most of the time. I know in my profession, before I retired, I went to the floor when I needed answers then I would recruit our engineers to give them what they needed to make it better or fix the problem.

Bill Micheline (who is who I was referring to above and over the years I have grown to respect) is very active in your club, ask him to let you cast his 15' Sage TCR and bring your TFO too to compare effort to results between the two rods. The results are predictable and inevitable; one just can't beat the laws of physics. Bill can be of great assistance to you and he enjoys helping.

I fish your waters with a 12x12 at times in the back or at IRI (I have both a 1212 T&T and a 1208 T&T (retired due to it was the setup my youngest daughter used before her being a victim in a murder suicide last January: she was everything to me and a great 2handed fly angler whom I miss greatly) and they are fun and keep my 2handed timing fresh but aren't what I call true 2handed casting tools) ( fact is, they are no better casting tools than my 9' 1handed rods with a good dbl haul) but out front or anywhere conditions warrant greater line speed it's a 15' or 16'er with a 45' 12wt shooting head which I can cast all night, cover far more water, and be less affected by size of forage or weather conditions with no more physical effort than the 12'ers and less than my 1handed rods. There are times I would of loved to of had a 20'er for 14wt line.

Please post what you think after this side by side comparison of short vs long 2hander's, if you do it. I will be glad to assist you or anyone else for that matter who has 2handed questions, Don (though I don't swing by here on this site as much as some others). I assist for the love of the sport and in the spirit of helping other anglers to enjoy 2handed fishing to the fullest; not for title, profit, or praise. ;) I call them as I have experienced them to shorten others learning curves and speed up their satisfaction and enjoyment with 2handed fly fishing the salt, regardless of industry trends.

One last word of advice: with 2handers ALWAYS electrical tape your ferrule's together ... you will be the first one to regret it when you don't! 2hander's generate tremendous pressures on the rod and it's ferrule's and will loosen ferrules and break rods in a blink of an eye!
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Two Handed Overhead Fly Rods

Jim: I think we have a slight misunderstanding here. I Know & appreciate the fact- a 2 HOH rod of 15', or 20' etc. will cast further with ease. I'm also familiar with the laws of Physics and Kinetic energy involved. I am not selecting a 2 HOH rod for max Distance - just casting ease and a distance of 90' to 100' with several personal considerations in mind. Additionally, I wanted a switch rod of 11' that could be switched to a single handed rod when required. If you can cast 95' on a 9' single handed rod with ease, - more power to you! My Immediate objective is to reduce effort of my casting a SH rod with repetitive false casts; this hopefully helps my shoulder problem caused by fly casting over 45 years. This rod is not to be my major rod for fly fishing, just an additional one for certain situations that occur. Secondly, I am very close to Bill M, and I discussed the choice of a rod with him. I can't, and also am certain, Bill will disagree with u that pros,( active SW anglers), in the field have less knowledge on the subject. Your statement is hard to believe! I have associated and learned from the various "pros" in the fly fishing field for many years, who are extremely active in the sport. After all, this is their profession through out life! I was also told by a major producer of 11 to 15 foot 2 HOH rods that I had made a wise decision based on my own situation. Actually Bill M recently purchased a short 2 HOH rod for his own particular situation. Finally, I did consult with MANY "everyday workers", (as you put it), for advise on the matter.

In conclusion, there is more to the selection of a 2HOH LENGTH rod than max distance. Some considerations are angler age + possible physical problems, length of retrievals by length of casts, awkwardness of rod handling, weight of rod, and cost comparison; add a cast distance that pleases an angler as another positive consideration.

Incidentally, my original thread asks for appropriate lines not rod lengths. Again, I am well aware of the advantages of long rod lengths. BUT I do appreciate your conscientious discourse discussing the subject for new 2 HOH anglers. I sincerely hope my involvement and descriptions will also help new anglers in 2 HOH rod selections.
 

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Hey Don,
The Delaware Club you started is going to have a booth at TieFest.
You should come over and join us for the day. I'll bring my old TFO and let you try a few lines that I use. The are nothing special and I throw floating only. The event is on the water so you'll be good to go with real life practice.
I'd like to talk to you about fishing that rod. You can't imagine the advantage you are going to have on the water.
You are going to love it.
Hope to see you there Don.


Dan.. I'm in Annapolis. You should have all sorts of targets with a two hander in that area. Oh baby... dead drifting shrimp flies for specks and reds? I think I'm going to pass out. Keeehrist.. I've been wanting to do that for years... and promising friends I'd come down but never making it. I gotta do that soon.
 

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Funny you should mention a physical issue as currently I am typing with my right hand in a cast after a thumb joint replacement at the wrist which wasn't the direct result of casting fly rods since the early 60's with my thumb on top but it sure didn't help. :yes:

An 11'er will give your shoulder a break casting a full line because you can keep your casting elbow closer to your body during the cast and your weak hand can assist the casting motion as well so that it isn't all up to one arm alone. As stated, I do own some short 2handed rods as well and concur that they will fit your criteria but line speed will be on par with with 1handed 9'ers.

Sorry I strayed from the topic of lines but I have seen far too many buy switch rods only to be disappointed with their performance and ultimately bad mouth 2handed fly angling when in fact they never really owned a 2handed rod of a length that shows 2handed fly angling's true advantages in the area of line speed and line control in the salt. Guess I was too quick on the "beware of short rod" trigger in this case. When I see 2handed rods and rods under 13' discussed at the same time my "red alert" goes off as I have seen expectation problems too many times. You seem to already be aware of switch rods limitations and strong points.

BillM might not admit it but Atlantic Coast 2handed SW fly rodding has traveled a long slow path of development since the very early 1990's. We are a small devoted group of anglers that all know each other and are aware of each of our time with these rods in hand and out on our Coastal waters. All of us have had to battle to get this form of angling recognized in main stream fly angling which is why the "pro" reference with 2handed equipment sits poorly (they were the one's responsible for suppressing this sport is the public's eyes more than anything else for so many years). There have been many times we have done battle even with each other as well but, we knew that our differences were earned with time on the water and there was a respect between the devotee's. I will state the experience level of BillM is as I said, compared to the "pro's". Jay Horton was one the early devotee's so is about the only player out there who has logged considerable time on the water with 2handers on the Atlantic Coast and may be the kicker in this case with BillM. I am not sure how much fishing Jay has been doing the past 3 years with 2handers as he has been busy with several other matters and we haven't talked much. The first elite fly angler to speak positively to the angling community on 2handed rods in the salt was Lefty in 2004-5 then others slowly followed suit over the next year so this shows how new it is to the "pro's". Listen to BillM, he's been at it longer than any of the elite's, and give his recommendations a serious try and you will be in great shape with these sticks!

Enjoy the ride Don and I hope your shoulder pain improves (it's no fun aging but the alternative is worse)! I'll go back to sleep on this topic now. :yawn:
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
ONEMORE CAST: Hope to get there if weather cooperates. Would like to see your old TFO rod. Casting these rods and various lines really makes the difference. I cast Bill M's rod and found it quite interesting. Don1
 
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